Marcus Rushe's Journal

The Dangers of Deep Space
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Arc
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Arc » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:50 pm

Balthelion wrote:This is basically the skill used for market scamming. It you can afford the 24% escrow at lv5, you can place the buy order, but if someone tries to sell you something, and you don't have the full 100% cash (the rest being made from your personal/corp wallet depening on how the order was set up) then it will just go "Sorry, no can do", and no transaction occurs. So basically you'll see people selling uncommon items, putting up buy orders at, for example, 10x the normal buy price (usually with a high - often impossible - minimum quantity required), then linking the item in chat and saying something like "LOL! Buy order fail! He added one too many zeroes!". This obviously being in the hope that people will buy his wares, try to sell it back for a profit, then realise that they can't sell that item that cost 50million back, because he needs to sell 10 of them in one go. And even if someone had 10 to sell, he can;t sell it because the buyer doesnt have the full price to pay in his wallet (only the minimum for escrow).
You left out an important part of the 'margin trading scam'. :P
When that over-priced buy order fails (because of the reasons you stated), the first matching buy order (for range, and volume in this case) will complete instead - which normally means the next highest buy order in the list after the "scamming" one. However, this second buy order is ALSO part of the scam! It is usually owned by the scammer (on one alt or another) where he (or she) will buy the goods back from the victim at a (usually) MUCH lower price than market average - so they get their goods back at a steal, basically! :D
I say "their" goods, because that's usually the case; the scammer is controlling not only the buy order(s), but the sell orders as well! He/she is providing ppl with the goods they will need to fall for the 'honey pot' buy order - usually at a (much!) higher price than what that particular item is usually sold for. So the scammer is making lots of money off the 'margin', in the difference between his sell orders and the price at which he/she is buying the same goods back. :P
However, this is also the great weakness in the scam! In fact, if you apply some careful thinking and reasoning, you can actually make lots of ISK off of the scammer! :D
Consider: the min volume of the scamming buy order is very specific (and cannot be (easily) changed once set), and they need to keep VERY tight control over all the sell orders (i.e. their volume!!) available as well, so... ;)
Balthelion wrote:The Connections skill states that it grants the user +4% effective standing per rank. But this isn't actually true. It's neither an additional 4% of your current standing, or a flat 4% of a 10.00 rating (ie, a 0.40 standing boost)

In actual fact, it gives you 4% or the value you are missing from that perfect 10.00 standing.

So if you had zero standing, you would get 4% of 10.00 = 0.40 boost per rank.

However if you had a 4.00 standing, you only get 4% of the remaining 6.00 standing = 0.24 per rank

At 8.00 standing, its a tiny 4% of 2.00 = 0.08 per rank. and so on.

So in short, the skill becomes less effective at boosting your standings, the higher your base standing are to begin with. Presumably its a deliberate measure to stop people capping standings easily just by training connections, while also allowing them a quicker start to standing grinding.

I'm not sure if this formula applies to the other standing modification skills though. Can't say i've particularly cared enough to run the math. Thus i'm not sure whether 1 rank of diplomacy for a -5.00 standing would grant 4% of 15 rep, or something else entirely.
Actually, the skill (skills, since it applies to more than just Connections) IS true to what it's advertised, because it doesn't state that it gives "+4% standing" (effective or otherwise).
What the skill (and others) states is: "4% modifier per level to effective standing..."
And that's exactly what it does. :D

The 'gory details' of the math behind these skills is actually (thankfully) rather simple. :) Here's the full formula:
E = 10 - (10 - S)*(1 - 0.04*L)

where
E - effective standing
S - 'real' standing
L - level of skill
; 'Connections' if S >= 0.00 and 'Diplomacy' if S < 0.00

Some examples (that I picked from my own character):
"Servant Sisters of Eve 3.47 (Connections 3 raises your effective standing from 2.58)"; 10 - (10 - 2.58)*(1 - 0.04*3) = 3.4704
"Amarr Empire -3.88 (Diplomacy 4 raises your effective standing from -6.52)"; 10 - (10 - (-6.52))*(1 - 0.04*4) = -3.8768
Angel Cartel: -9.53 --> -6.40
And a rather amusing example; Blood Raider Covenant: -0.21 --> 1.42 (yes, quite a jump from a negative to a positive :P)

In a way I suppose the problem with understanding how these skills work lies in most ppl thinking they give an 'increase' per level, and then attaching that listed number to their conclusion, thinking that's what they're getting (i.e. +4%) while there, in reality, is nothing listed anywhere that states (or even suggests) that!
You were on the right track with your reasoning though - thinking that it rather affects the 'missing part' from what you have and 10.00. Because that's sort of exactly what it does; instead of ppl thinking of the skill as "increasing the standing" they should think of it as 'decreasing the difference to 10.00' - which is made pretty clear from just looking at the formula above. :D

In regards to the final paragraph in your post (regarding the "worth" of training Diplomacy), I think you can see from the examples above that it gives a HUGE boost to negative standings (I wouldn't be allowed into Amarr space without it :lol:)!
My short answer to that (and to anyone who doesn't want to bother with or even think about math, formulas and details at all!) is this:
Diplomacy is a rank 1 skill, and injecting it and training it up from level 0 to level 4 takes less than 1 day in total. You will never, EVER be sorry you trained that! :mrgreen:
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Balthelion » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:31 pm

Oh diplomacy is definitely worth it (The Amarr would have me shot on sight otherwise :mrgreen:).

Words cannot express just how much the Sepentis hate me too.


Not sure If I'm following your train of thought in managing to scam the scammer though. The scam order with the overpriced buy price and the high minimum quantity will never, EVER go through, even if you have the correct quantity - Because they'll ensure that they never have the additional (non-escrowed) ISK available in the wallet. Unless you meant something else, in which case, please do share :D
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Dumnomii » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:34 am

I think its under bidding by a tiny bit the expensive sell order for the 2 part scams

Impossible escrow buy order up for something rare at 100K


Scam sell order at 50K

So people buy intending to sell straight away at profit

So you put up a sell order at 45K

Assuming real market price is 30K


But I could be wrong :P
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Arc » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:22 pm

Omnom pretty much nailed it.

The scammer is making their primary profit from their (massively over-priced) sell orders - providing the unsuspecting victims with the rope to hang themselves, as it were. That means they have to keep a very tight control over ALL sell orders, in order to insure that profit goes to them and not someone else. :P

So, what you do is; you put up your own sell order with a (hopefully rather large) stack of the item in question, undercutting the scammer and making sure that your price is the cheapest available. Your stack will usually sell very quickly, because one of the following will happen:
  1. An unsuspecting victim comes along and falls for the honeypot, buying your stuff and tried to profit from the bogus buy order. They lose money (and the scammer loses some money too, usually); you make a profit!
  2. The scammer quickly notices what you have done, and immediately buys out your stack to protect their own sell orders (and keep the scam going as long as possible - which they now have to extend the timeframe for, to cover their losses from buying YOUR stuff!). The scammer loses money; you make a profit!
  3. The scammer notices your sell order, but is sneaky and/or doesn't think you've completely sussed the inner workings of the scam, so they try to play 'the .01 ISK war' against you with all their sell orders. You immediately respond by crashing the price on the item, lowering your sell order by a rather large chunk. The scammer realises they've been made, bites the bullet, buys out your stuff and ups the price of their sale orders again. See 2).
So if you're quick on the uptake, and happen to have a stack of the item in question (or can get it cheap from another region and ship it over), then you can turn quite a profit on these scams! :D
It's not really "scamming" the scammer, but rather profiting from the flaws in their scheme. ;)
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Balthelion » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:09 am

The catch though is that the items they choose are really obscure items that are not only hard to acquire (/loot) in game, but hard to buy at market too, even at the hubs. You might have an outside chance at the other hubs, but the default non-scam price per itm is usually pretty high, meaning you'll have to tie up a lot of capital to make it worthwhiel (and then be stuck in the same position as the scammer - if you can't sell the stock, you're down on money)
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Balthelion » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 pm

Skill Training

Skill training lately has continued to mostly be about training many skills that have always been considered "nice to have" but have been of a lesser priority, although there's also been a focus on buffing my battleship(s) for hard level 4 content.

Scout Drone Operation 4 & 5 - Finally got around to this so that I can use Tier 2 light - and with a tiny bit of extra training, medium - drones. Besides being another of those "Would like to have, but never was a high enough priority" skills, This will be particularly useful for my Lv4 mission running, particularly with some of the more brutally hard ones. Better drones to take down frigate swarms is nice, since i'm practically entirely reliant on my droens to take down frigates that make it to close-range (short of repositioning myself with the MJD).

Gallente Drone Specialisation 2 - T2 light drones only needed rank 1 of this skill (which i already had), but the medium drones required rank 2, so I stuck it in the queue. I may train this a little bit higher later for a small increase to drone DPS, but right now it's not a priority.

Warp Drive Operation 4 - Reduces the capacitor need of initiating warp by 10%. I can't recall my exact reasons for training this, short of the "nice to have" universal ship skill aspect. I strongly suspect it was one of the things missing for Level 3 mastery of my Fenrir freighter, which i've since achieved.

Long Range Targeting 4 - My Hyperion previously had a targeting range of 69km, with it's ideal gun range (Optimal plus half of falloff) being around the 70-75km mark. So in short, I'm being gimped a bit by my targeting rage, and my ship would like to be able to fight longer range engagements rather than being swamped at close range. Especially since I can gun down pesky frigates speeding towards me with a one-shot volley at those ranges. The extra 5% range will help nicely, but since this is a 2s skill, I don't see myself prioritising the 5th level of this skill (7 and a half days) anytime soon. Level 4 took the Hyperion's range to 72km (+3km).

Hull Upgrades 5 - This is the current ongoing training project (7d 19h in total). Grants +5% Armour hit points per level, which as an armour tanker is always nice. More importantly though, a lot of T2 armour tanking modules require this trained to rank 5 - including Armour Plates and Energised Resistance Platings. I've been wanting to train this for a good long while, but the training time always put me off. Again, I'm eager to get this to give my ships a massive defensive boost for those harder Lv4 missions. I believe once this is trained, then specialist rigs and large turrets aside, I can fit T2 of everything currently fitted on my battleships, which will be a nice boost.



The Fleet

My ship pool continues to grow, so much so in fact that my home base has a bloody long list of ships in the hangar.

The latest addition is a brand new Skiff that I manufactured myself. I purchased all the necessary raw materials, used my BPO's to manufacture the necessary components, then used those components in my personally-invented Skiff BPCs to produce one.

I don't really have much use for the skiff right now, I was just eager to complete my set of all 3 Exhumers. All of which I invented and manufactured myself (Yay! Go me!). In the long run, It is possible that the skiff may be fitted for some adventurous lowsec/w-space mining.


Manufacturing

I've also been trying to manufacture many of my leftover BPCs in my hangar, just to clear things out. I've been manufacturing a lot of ammo in particular, to get those BPCs used up (Keeping the last run intact for invention, of course!).



The POS

Research jobs are progressing rather nicely. I have discovered some extra functionality for managing my labs, so it appears to be possible to allow non-corp people to use my labs, based on certain criteria. I still need to play around with this more to see how it works in practice. I know that corp members can use BPOs in a station in labs for a POS in the same system. I'd assume the same would be true for eligible non-corp members. This does then present a problem in that there are no stations in the Chantrousse system. My (albeit limited) testing has determined that it seems to be impossible to use BPOs from docked inside a station in a neighbouring system. In short: If you can't access the POS Research Lab storage (which to the best of my knowledge, requires you to be in corp in order to be assigned the permissions), then you're screwed.

This weekend I will need to resupply the POS with fuel, so I will need to buy some fuel blocks or manufacture them using my buffed BPO (which is already down to 0.0% wastage). Odds are I'll probably be lazy and buy them :P.
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Balthelion » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:07 am

That awkward moment when you realise that your current training runs about about lunchtime and you forgot to queue additional skills up last night, so you're going to miss many hours of training time :roll:
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Balthelion » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:26 pm

Been a while since the last update, but my EVE time has been minimal so there's not much to miss.


Skill Training

Skill training so far this month has continued to be focused on unlocking the ability to fit T2 variants of everything.

Armour Rigging 3 - Some more work towards reducing the penalties from Armour rigging mods, since I tend to favour those (Trimarks for % extra armour, and also +% resistance plating. The endgame is to get it to at least L4 to be able to use T2 versions.

High Speed Maneuvering 4 - Another one of my "Tech2-ification" training skills, this time to be able to fit some T2 MWD's. And also get the usual per-rank bonuses.

Hybrid Weapon Rigging 3 & 4 - Again, another rigging skill to reduce drawbacks from usage, and unlock T2 versions for use, though I think I have yet to actually fit a T2 Hybrid rig on anything yet.

Large Hybrid Turrets 5 - This is the big one. Probably the longest skill train I've done to-date (the better part of 4 weeks even with L5 implants). Besides the desire to be able to use T2 guns on my battleships, I figured it would be a perfect choice as a long skill to train while I'm not in the game much at present (It's always best to train the REALLY LONG skills when you aren't really playing, instead of logging in daily and sighing at the lack of progress IMHO :P). Anyway, despite that, It's still taking a year and a day to complete :P. It'll finish on Wednesday though.



Future Training Plans

Large Hyrid Turret 5 will end the current chapter of training, so I'll be looking to start a whole new chapter soon which will probably take me through May.

Depending on how ship fitting the Damocles goes (My skinned Hyperion) once I can fit T2 guns on it, I may start by training Armour Rigging 4. It all depends on which direction I choose to take the rigs, and which ones I decide to T2. And rig choice will depend on available PG/CPU reources so we'll see. I've already acquired a full set of 425mm Railgun II's, plus their 350mm smaller cousins in the (hopefully unlikely event) I'm forced to downgrade gun calibre.

After that, I'm probably going to go on a major Drone training spree. Since I'm a Gallente pilot, flying Gallente ships Drones are of great importance to me, even if I'm not flying a "Drone Boat". For the Hyperion specifically, I can field a full 5 drones of any type, with 175m3 worth of drone cargo space os that's a veritable fleet I can store on board.

While my Drone training is sufficient enough for me to use T2 Light and Medium drones, and contains a well-rounded selection of various supporting skills, It's definitely an area my training is behind in right now. This can be witnessed by the fact the Drone Skill requirements are what are holding me back in numerous mastery pages for ships. Of course, these are just guides, but I want my drone skills on par with the fact that everything else about my ships will be Tech 2 now. I want my bees to have bigger stingers.

POS
Had a bit of an incident last week. POS fuel had actually ran out the day before I expected it to. So, my POS had offlined for about 24 hours. First and foremost, this meant that the shield went down. It also meant that all science paused while offline, and that even once refuelled, I had to Online each and every module again. Bah.


Missions
Did some Level 4's with Obi, and later also Hardric the other day.

Was quite amusing with Obi, since NPC's were chasing him like kids chasing an Ice Cream van most of the time :mrgreen:

This meant on several occasions he had to warp out because he was taking a hell of a beating, but his new fit based on suggestions from the other topic proved quite sturdy in battle, so he didn't lose it (Although there was one very close call where he was down to low structure :P)

That particular mission (The Blockade) was a rather fun one, as by the end of it even I was down to structure (no cap for the repper), and practically unable to shoot and having to resort to RAMMING SPEED! But I knew my ship could structure tank well enough to see off the last two battleships :P

Hardric later joined us in his Maelstrom, so we at least had two battleships on point for the last two missions. Although his range was seemingly somewhat small (I'm guessing about 40km tops?) which meant that we were relying on my range a lot (And normally I'm the guy with crap range :P) to piss off enemies and make them come to us.
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Balthelion » Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 pm

Skill Training

Sharpshooter 5 - Turns out I derped, and forgot that the T2 battleship guns also require this skill trained to level 5 (currently @ L4), so that's another 7d19h worth of training. BAH. In any event, Large Hybrid Turrets 5 was completed, so I at least get the full benefit out of my T1 guns now (an additional 5% damage). Sharpshooter 5 is now the primary training objective, which will take me until next Thursday (8th may) at the earliest

Remote Repair Systems 1, 2 & 3 - I Concluded that it might be more beneficial to run a Remote Armor Repairer in my 7th High slot on my Hyperion (which can't fit a weapon) as opposed to a salvager when missioning in a group. Particularly if with Obi. Since I'll be able to help keep him alive, and hopefully piss everything off by repairing him, thus ensuring all agro is on me. Had to train it to L3 in order to fit the Large variant, but this was only about 6 hours, so relatively painless and I get three ranks of benefit rather than the token level 1 train.


The Fleet

The Damocles

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This is my new Hyperion, the one with the awesome Aliastra Black & Red paint job. Despite the setback with not being able to fit T2 guns for a week later than expected, I crunched the maths so that I could finalise a build and fit it immediately, without having to wait for the T2 guns to ensure I can fit everything. It's immediately considerably tankier, and slightly better in both the DPS and speed departments than my original Hyperion, plus gains a huge targeting range boost. Fit is as follows:


High
  1. 6 x 425mm Railgun (Currently T1-M4, soon to be T2)
  2. 1 x Salvager I (SOLO) -or- 1 x Remote Armor Repairer (FLEET)
Medium
  1. 1 x Micro Jump Drive
  2. 1 x Sensor Booster II
  3. 3 x Cap Recharger II
Low
  1. 1 x Damage Control II
  2. 1 x Federation Navy Large Armor Repairer (Faction Meta 8 gear - Same as T2 but less fitting requirements)
  3. 2 x 1600mm Armor Plating II
  4. 2 x Adaptive Energised Membrane II
  5. 1 x Magnetic Field Stabilisaer II
Rigs
  1. 1 x Hybrid Collision Accelerator II (+15% Hybrid Turret Damage)
  2. 2 x Large Trimark Armor - (+30% Armour)
Ammo
  1. Federation Navy Antimatter (Large)
  2. Sensor Booster is Unscripted (Don't need extra range, but might be worth picking up the other script)
Can link the fitting screenie later to display final stats, but its nice :)


Did some combat testing over the last couple of days and it's been performing very well. The most notable departure from the fit of the original Hyperion was dropping the MWD for the sensor booster. I pretty much just used the MWD for mobility. Like if I have to travel 40-50km to an acceleration gate (which is painfully long at 120 m/s), and its not viable to use the Microjump to move 100km in any given direction. So far, can't say that I've missed it.

The Sensor booster has been pretty great for enabling long range targeting (Range boosted from about 72km to 93km iirc > +30%). That distance is pretty much the absolute max range of my guns. So while the DPS is practically non-existant, it serves as a means to agro distant targets, then they will fly towards me while i pick them off.
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Re: Marcus Rushe's Journal

Post by Balthelion » Thu May 08, 2014 5:21 pm

Skills

Sharpshooter 5 - This was completed in the early hours of this morning. I will FINALLY, after a month's worth of training, be able to fit T2 Battleship hybrid turrets! YAY! \o/

Remote Armour Repair 4 - I needed to install a kicker in the skill queue last night since Sharpshooter was down to it's last few hours. I was originally going to go for Combat Drone Operation 4 (more on that below), but decided to plump for Remore Amor Repair 4 instead, since they were both a 1d9h training time, and RAR4 will allow me to fit the T2 module. Basically, I figured it would be nice to bump myself up to the T2 module before even do another fleet mission run, So I'll be using a T2 module from day 1 so to speak.


Since the Kronos expansion is now officially announced and coming on 3rd June, I'll be wanting to focus in some key skills in the run up to it's launch.


Combat Drone Operation 4 & 5 is a priority to complete before it launches (see here for the explanation why), and is part of my commitment to boosting my Drone capabilities. Which is even more relevant considering that drones are getting some love in the new expansion. My focus will be primarily on buffing my light and medium drones specifically, which is why this skill is of paramount importance to train ASAP - since it will be split into two skills for light and medium drones respectively. And by training it before the expansion I'm essentially getting one skill (which will no doubt also have a higher training time multiplier) maxed out for free.

Cloaking 4 - I think it's 4 (and only 4) that i need anyway. But either way, I've been wanting the ability to use Covert Ops Cloaking Devices for a while now, since one or two of my ships can fit them. But I REALLY want to get my hands on one of the new ORE Prospect frigates, and do some risky (but profitable!) low-sec mining with the planned buff to low-sec ore options. While it's not critical to have this trained for launch (especially since it may take a while to source a Prospect), I'd probably prefer to have it trained and ready since it's a 2-3d train iirc.

Kronos will also be making sweeping changes to Industry, so I may also feel the need to prepare by training various Industry related skills up before launch. For now though, immediate focus will be on drones, and optimising my T2 Light/Medium combat drones in particular.
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