The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

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The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Balthelion » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:49 pm

Post tips, tricks and questions here.
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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Arc » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:10 pm

I would like to offer the following suggestion for consideration:

First, split the raid group into subgroups of 5+5+2. Each group of 5 would be a 'Valve Group', being responsible for the 2 valves on one side of the boss - north and south, was it? - respectively. The group of 2 would be the 'Boss Group' consisting of tank+healer, staying on the fire grim the entire time.
Each Valve Group would consist of either Captain+Tank+3 DPS or Captain+Healer+3 DPS. There should be at least one AoE DPS in each group.

At the start of the fight, noone starts damaging the boss initially. Boss Group goes to engage it and keep it busy, while the Valve Groups goes off to their respective sides; to clear away all the adds at the valves, and then close the valves completely - top one first and then the bottom one. This now gives a window of 90 seconds before they will start to open again.

Once all the valves are fully closed, start DPSing the boss. Do so either until it has released 20 units of smoke into the pipes (which will force the valves open from the pressure), or until there is indication on the meter that a unit of smoke has been released into the mountain - whichever happens first.
At that point, stop ALL DPS on the fire grim, and the Valve Groups move off to once again clear away adds from their respective valves, and close them completely again - first adds, then top valve, then bottom valve.
Rinse, repeat.

At the point where the (stationary) add near the grim spawns, switch DPS to that and bring it down. Then back to the rotation again.

A slightly modified tactic - for more safety and control - would be to ONLY let ranged DPS do damage to the boss when it's time to do so, while the remainder of the Valve Groups will stay at the very bottom of their respective sides and kill off incoming adds heading for the valves, before they can get there. This alternative may or may not lead to issues with time constraints (there is a 25-minute deadline on the raid), but could be worth trying as it would give a slower build-up of smoke by the grim, and thus allow for more control over how many units get released into the mountain.

Questions? Comments? Other suggestions?
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Balthelion » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:00 am

We got it down to about 20% pretty much using the same as arc outlined above. Smoke management was pretty damn good, and the smoke counter was well behind the timer until the final stages of the fight.

We would probably have beated it, if it were not for the lack of ranged dps (1 hunt and 1 LM). Though the bugged ability toretreat and run back in helped :mrgreen:
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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Arc » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:01 pm

Revising the above tactics a bit, into sort of a combination of the two alternatives (although slightly altered), more or less.

The start of the fight is more or less the same: NO DPS on the grim at all initially. One tank just locks the aggro of it, and that's it. Then it's time for the valves, and here's a slight modification:
Park 2 ranged DPS (hunters in the group, if possible) near the foot of the entrance ramp, slightly to each side of it; far enough from the grim as to not take lots of damage, but close enough to still be able to attack it - and also close enough to the healers for them to be able to reach the hunters with heals (more on this below).

The remaining two groups of 5 people each goes off to fully close the valves on the north and south sides respectively (if this was a restart, clear away all adds from the sides first!); top valve first, then bottom one.

After that, assign one person from each group to run back up to their respective top valves, and stay on valve-duty constantly throughout the fight - suggestion would be a 'support' class (captains would be good for this, or LMs) to handle this task. They can still break away and momentarily assist their groups if the need arises, and then return to closing the valves again - but NOT stay away for too long, or the valves will open too much and they themselves will need further assistance in closing them!

The remainder of the groups - consisting of tank, healer, all the melee DPS and any leftover ranged DPS aside from the two in front of the grim - will take up position directly to the far north and far south of the grim, respectively. This is where all the easterling adds will spawn and try to make a bee-line up the hills towards the valves, so the groups will grab them up here and mow them down before they can get anywhere. Healers will position themselves to the northwest and southwest of the grim, respectively, near the bottom valves sort of - in-between the melee groups fighting adds and the ranged DPS doing damage to the grim, able to reach both.

Now the cycle begins:
  • Ranged DPS will start attacking the grim.
  • The persons on valve-duty will be at their respective top valves, and the moment it starts to open they will close it by 1 step then immediately run down to close the bottom one by 1 step as well, then back up to the top. If the valves have been opened by more than 1 step, repeat the procedure.
  • If the valves have been opened by 3 steps or more, immediately call out to STOP ALL DPS on the grim! The 2 ranged DPS will then break away and assist their sides with fully closing the valves, before going back to doing damage on the grim.
  • At certain stages, a fire-tender easterling will come in from behind the grim (east). When that happens, EVERY damage-dealer should immediately switch focus to the fire-tender (even the ranged on the grim), to nuke it down as fast as possible, since the grim will be invulnerable to damage while the fire-tender is alive, and it appears he heals the grim as well!?
  • If there are easterling adds still alive when the fire-tender comes, tanks either bring them over to the fire-tender to be mowed down by AoE (very risky, since the warriors do nasty AoE cleaves in a full frontal arc, which can easily obliterate people in an instant, so always stay fully behind them!), or stay put and hold the adds off until the fire-tender is dead and the rest of the group returns to kill them - either way, these adds are NOT the priority at the time. Healers focus on the tanks at this point, since the fire-tender does no damage on his own and the groups are 'safe' killing it.
  • In case things start to go pear-shaped at any point, call down the support people from the valves to help the groups out; with ressing, healing, a bit of extra damage, etc. Just make the ranged DPS on the grim aware of this so that they throttle down on DPS so as not to make the grim release too much smoke into the pipes (damage to the grim IS what causes smoke to be released!) and forcing the valves open when there is noone to close them - they could even stop damage on the grim completely, and break away to assist killing adds with AoE DPS.
Repeat the above steps until the grim is dead. Rejoice, and claim the spoils of victory! :D

With a bit of restraint and coordination/communication, T2C should be fully possible this way with in the 25-minute time limit. The grim has less than 1.5M morale, which over 25 minutes translates to exactly 1000 DPS - should be peanuts even for a single person, let alone a raid.
So remember: this is NOT a DPS race! Take it slow and steady, keep calm and controlled - panicking in here only worsens the situation, and will ultimately lead to a wipe.
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Dooriull » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:08 pm

i dont know where to post this, but i have some guide for smaug t2, hope it will be of some help
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... xdXc#gid=0
i heard some rumors that you need to close all 4 valves, when you do t2
i was only doing smaug t1 until now, so i dont know very much about this

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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Arc » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:39 pm

You need to close all 4 valves regardless if you're doing t1 or t2. The grim releases smoke into all the pipes equally, so if one of the valves is left open that smoke will go into the mountain.

And OMG at that spreadsheet! :o
It did have some useful bits of information in it, though; namely that pretty much everything in the instance seems to be triggered ONLY on morale thresholds of the grim:
  • Adds spawn at every 10% mark of the grim's morale.
  • Valves are forced open (by 2 units) - i.e. the grim is releasing smoke pressure into the pipes - at every 5% mark of the grim's morale.
  • A fire-tender spawns at every 25% mark of the grim's morale.
Everything else in that spreadsheet is pretty much a carbon-copy of the above described tactics. :)

But thanks for the added info!
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Dooriull » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:03 am

For t2.
Its not most important, but it would be good that you can see moral in percents.
If someone is interested in that, he can go to options - UI settings - and at "vital bar text display" change from cur/max to percentage.

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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Arc » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:56 pm

Collected all the information and re-wrote the tips and tactics for this instance into a new, complete guide for T1 as well as T2(C). I debated whether to edit one of my previous posts in the thread, erasing the old stuff and replacing it with the new, but decided to add a new post instead. :)

I will try to keep this guide updated in case our experience evolves in the future. If someone has anything to add - something that is wrong or missing - let me know and I will change it as needed.
(Also note that this is my first writing of a proper 'guide', so bear with me. ;) Any suggestions on how to improve e.g. the formatting and such are welcome too.)
Right, here goes...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Table of Contents
  • 1. General Mechanics
    2. Group Composition
    3. Tactics
    • 3.1 Initial preparations
      3.2 Getting into position
      3.3 Cry havoc, and let slip the... grim of war


1. General Mechanics

This raid is a multi-component encounter, where each aspect has different mechanics and needs to be prioritised and dealt with in turn. Everyone needs to be on the same page – working towards the same objective – at all times, as trying to handle all aspects at once (out of chaos, panic or bad coordination) will only worsen the situation and ultimately lead to a failure of the raid. Ignoring (one or more) aspect(s) and focusing completely on another, will in most cases also lead to a failure.

The raid has 4 principal components:
  • A fire grim: The centerpiece of this raid is a huge fire grim ’boss’; Belegnor. The overall objective of the raid is to kill this grim, within a 25-minute time limit. The grim will periodically deal high fire damage to whoever currently has the aggro of it, and will also reflect a huge threat increase to anyone doing damage to it. It also has an aura effect emanating from it, dealing damage to anyone being too close.
    It is, however, not just as straight-forward as merely killing the grim; there are other mechanics as well, associated with the grim.
  • Smoke control-valves: The grim is connected to 4 long pipes running along the instance to 4 different points where there are openings, which lead into the mountain. Whenever the grim’s morale gets to a threshold that is an even multiple of 5% (i.e. 95%, 90%, 85% and so on – every 5% of its morale you take off through damage to it) it will release smoke into the pipes which, if not dealt with, will go straight into the mountain.
    To prevent this, at the end of each pipe (where the openings into the mountain are) is a 5-stage control valve in the shape of a dragon’s head, ranging from 0 (fully closed) to 5 (fully open). The stage of each valve at the time the grim releases smoke into the pipes, will determine how many units of smoke (0 to 5) will pass into the mountain through that particular opening at that particular time (i.e. the total amount of smoke that will go into the mountain for each release from the grim ranges from 0 to 20 units).
    By using a valve, a person can close it by 1 step but will also receive a 45-second debuff preventing that person from using that particular valve again during that period of time. Hence; if a particular valve is fully open (stage 5), it will take 5 (different!) people to fully close it (in less than 45 seconds, that is).
    The objective for Challenge mode on Tier 2 is to let no more than 20 units of smoke [note: “a puff of smoke”; number needs confirmation!] pass into the mountain, in total.
  • Fire-tender: When the grim’s morale is at an even multiple of 25% (i.e. 75%, 50% and 25%), a fire-tender will come in from the back (east). The fire-tender will move up right next to the grim on the east side and puts a shield buff on the grim making it completely invulnerable to all damage for as long as the fire-tender is alive.
    The fire-tender has a buff on him making him highly resistant to certain types of damage [-75% ranged/tactical damage? Note: confirm!]. Additionally, on Tier 2 he will heal the grim for quite a lot as long as he is alive and he will also reflect a very large portion of damage done to him [reflecting 200% shadow damage? Note: confirm!]. The objective here is of course to kill the fire-tender as quickly as possible – on Tier 2 while being mindful of the huge damage reflected back to the attacker(s).
  • Easterling adds: Whenever the grim’s morale reaches a threshold that is an even multiple of 10% (i.e. 100%, 90%, 80% and so on – yes, 100%; meaning also at the very start of the raid!) two groups of Easterling adds will spawn near the edges of the instance; directly north and south of the grim, respectively. These adds will try to make a bee-line up the hill to the valves on their respective sides, unless prevented.
    Each group of adds consists of two types of mobs: (elite) Engineers, which will randomly cast a fire puddle on someone, dealing large damage to anyone standing in it; and (signature) Warriors, which have a nasty AoE cleave dealing HUGE damage to anyone close to them in a 180° frontal arc! These Warriors in particular can literally obliterate a whole group of people in no time at all, so the objective here is for a tank to pick up all the adds and make sure they are all facing away from the rest of the group, while everyone else kills the adds as quickly as possible – taking great care to stay fully behind them, preferably at a safe distance if possible.

2. Group Composition

For the group composition in this raid, the easiest way is to divide the raid into the standard two fellowship groups of 6 people each. Each group would then be responsible for everything – valves and adds – on one side of the instance; either the north side or the south side, respectively.

For a standard composition of each group you will need a tank, a healer and (at least) 1 ranged DPS. While not really essential, each group will probably also include a Captain for the added group support overall. This leaves 2 spots to fill in each group, and here you have some options to choose depending on what you would prefer. For added safety, you can fill those slots with ranged/tactical (AoE!!) DPS; hunters/RKs/LMs. Burglars can add some safety and control as well, by AoE stunning the adds for a short time to reduce the threat they pose while being killed. Somewhat more risky, champs can be chosen for the AoE damage they bring – however, they can take huge damage in melee range of adds and run the risk of dying themselves.

My personal recommendation for an ‘ideal’ group composition though, is to have a LM in each group for the great utility they bring (e.g. Sticky Tar + Improved Sticky Gourd to literally melt the adds very quickly from a safe range, emergency heals, extra revive, and the added CC capabilities – especially if things get out of hand!). The last spot in each group I would leave as ‘random/DPS’.


3. Tactics

3.1 Initial preparations
As mentioned above in the General Mechanics section, this raid has 4 principle components – which may or may not be active simultaneously! – that all need to be handled in turn. Meaning; they need to be ranked in a relative priority of importance! The following would be the preferred order of priority, at all times during this instance:
  • 1. Kill Fire-tender
    2. Kill Engineer+Warrior adds
    3. Closing of valves
    4. Do damage to grim
This is a raid where communication, cooperation and control are of the utmost importance. You are actually fighting your own team (as well as the timer, of course) more than anything else, in here! Therefore, it is absolutely essential that EVERYONE is on the same page; doing the same thing at the same time, ‘following the same drummer’ and all taking orders from the same person – and NOT acting on their own accord and disregard the rest of the group! No matter which order you (as the leader) choose to prioritise the list in, there is still a set list of priorities and everyone should stick to it.

In particular, this is especially important for what is listed as the 4th priority above; doing damage to the grim. If ranged DPS becomes a bit over-zealous with their damage to the grim, they can cross a morale threshold at the wrong time thus triggering mechanics the rest of the raid is not ready for at that time: spawning a wave of adds (which could quickly wipe the whole raid); releasing smoke into the pipes (which could potentially fail the raid or, at the very least, most likely fail Challenge on Tier 2); or spawn a fire-tender (which on Tier 2 will heal the grim – possibly all the way back up to full morale!). This would all be very, very bad, so it’s vital to exercise control and work as part of a team!

So, establish a set list of priority order, and stick to it. No exceptions. Do NOT move ahead to the next point on the list unless ALL the ones above it have been fully taken care of at the time. Keep cycling through the list until the end.

The following tactics assumes the listed order of priority from above, as well as the ‘ideal’ group composition mentioned: 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 ranged DPS, 1 Captain, 1 LM and 1 random DPS – in each group. If your own choices diverge from these assumptions, make the appropriate adjustments accordingly if needed.

3.2 Getting into position
Before the fight starts, each group should move over to their side (north and south, respectively), being careful NOT to get too close to the grim and starting the fight prematurely. If the raid has just recovered from a previous wipe there may be adds lingering next to the valves; clear away all remaining adds first, before restarting the encounter.

Next is the pre-positioning of key personnel so that they are in place and ready when the fight starts. Position the 2 ranged DPS (1 from each group) near the foot of the road leading down from the entrance – due west of the grim. Spread them apart a bit (~10-20m or so) to the north and south though – like at the 8 o’clock and 10 o’clock positions on the compass, sort of, relative to the grim. After the fight has started, they should be close enough to the grim to be able to hit it, but also close enough to where the rest of the group will be later, to be able to turn on the spot and assist with killing adds quickly.

Continuing with a clock analogy, position the healers at the 11 (north healer) and 7 (south healer) positions, respectively. The healers should thus be positioned to be able to reach both their group dealing with adds as well as the ranged DPS. Send the tanks off to the respective spawn points of their side’s Easterling adds, and have the rest of the group waiting close to their respective bottom valves.

This will be the ‘default’ positioning of everyone at stage 4 on the list above – i.e. when the rest of the people in the groups aren’t actively doing anything at the time, but waiting for fire-tender/adds to spawn.

A good idea (particularly if you have e.g. LMs in the group) is to agree within the group on a specific place in the instance as a ‘hotspot’; a zone on the ground (preferably near to where the group is waiting) to where the tank will bring the adds and position them to be killed by the group – a zone which can be stacked with aids and debuffs (LM tar and sticky gourd, RK flurry of words, hunter bleed traps, minstrel’s hopeful heart, etc.) to help dispatch all the adds more quickly. It can really make a huge difference in dispatching the adds quickly – just make sure everyone is clear on exactly where the zone is!

3.3 Cry havoc, and let slip the... grim of fire
Start the encounter by having one of the ranged DPS hit the grim once. Then start cycling through the priority list:
  • Fire-tender spawning at every 25% multiple of the grim’s morale, starting at 75% (i.e. not at the very start of the encounter). If there are adds as well (this happens deliberately at 50% morale on the grim), tanks will keep them all busy and well AWAY from everyone else. Everyone else (except healers) will focus fire on the fire-tender to kill it as fast as possible. Healers (and possibly also the ranged DPS) will need to reposition accordingly for this stage – and after the fire-tender is dead, move back to original positions.
  • Adds spawning every 10% multiple of the grim’s morale, starting at 100%. Tanks should be in position at their spawning point before the adds spawn, grabbing them all as they spawn and rejoin with the rest of the group – if a ‘hotspot’ was chosen by the group, bring the adds there – and turn the adds away from the group. Stun/CC/debuff adds. Kill adds. The ranged DPS will switch target from the grim during this phase to help kill off all the adds.
  • When all adds are dead, the groups will FULLY close the valves on their respective side – close the BOTTOM valve first, and then move up to close the TOP valve. The reason for this order is that the bottom valve will then later be the one that opens first – hence you can then easily identify the (worst) state of the top valve without having to run up to it, by simply looking at the bottom valve from where you are standing! If the valves are open by 3 units or less, that group’s healer and ranged DPS can stay where they are; if they are open by 4 or 5 units, however, healer and ranged will break away as well to assist in closing them!
    When closing valves, make sure you form a line (a queue, really) so that only ONE person at a time uses the valve. There’s a bug where if two people are using the same valve simultaneously they will BOTH get the 45-second debuff on them, but the valve will only close by 1 step! Hence; it’s better to have 6 people ready to close 5 steps (or 4 people closing 3 steps) than to be left sitting with a valve that is not fully closed.
    Regardless if ranged DPS was helping with valves or were staying put, they SHALL NOT do damage to the grim unless they have received confirmation that BOTH groups have fully closed the valves on their respective sides!
  • All valves are fully closed, so ranged DPS will start damaging the grim. ONLY those who have been designated to do so should attack the grim. No one else! They will at all times keep track of the grim’s morale, and carefully bring it down to the specific morale point requested by the raid leader – and NOT further – slowing their DPS just before they get there, so as not to go too far (e.g. if 71% morale was requested by the raid leader, they should both nuke it down to ~73% and then one of them slowly brings it down to 71%, stopping exactly when that level is reached)!
    Preferably, any bleeds/DoTs should be avoided, if possible. Unless the person in question has FULL control over them so that they will expire before the requested level is reached. This so as NOT to cross a (additional) morale threshold prematurely, triggering additional mechanics that is not wanted at the time!
Repeat the above steps (in order) until the grim is dead.

As an added tip:
For this fight it is incredibly useful to go into the settings and change the display of vitals to percentage (Options > UI Settings > Vital Bar Text Display; change to ‘Percentage’). This is pretty much essential for the raid leader (and group leader(s) too, possibly) as well as the ranged DPS doing damage to the grim, but can be very good for everybody else in the raid to better keep track of what is going on and be ready for a change to the next step in the cycle.

Remember: At all times, stay calm, focused and in control. This is not a DPS race (especially not on T1), so take it slow and steady. Keep in mind that panicking in here only worsens the situation and will ultimately lead to a failure of the raid, so it's better to stop everything for a moment - take a step back and get a handle on the situation - before continuing. Better to succeed slowly, than fail quickly! :P
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by eyandil » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:28 pm

Good job, Arc. It is a very good guide. thx.

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Re: The Fires of Smaug (FoS)

Post by Aedfrith » Wed May 29, 2013 2:11 pm

Arc's guide is pretty much exactly how I completed it on t2 with bikkies. One thing to say is that on t2 there is *some* time pressure, particularly with getting the fire-tender down because on t2 he heals the grim. But following Arc's tactics will lead to success.
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