Class: Champion

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Re: Class: Champion

Post by Hal » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:09 pm

Wiploc wrote: Crit
Tbh, after having recently opened my eyes to Improved Wild Attack I am still trying to find the best balance. As in trying to sort out what is then the better option. Roughly speaking, a 7.5k crit rating could theoretically be enough - but it won't hurt to actually chase the crit chance in order to reach the "maintained buff state". This may very well sit at 7.5k; maybe a little less, maybe a little more. And maybe it doesn't really matter too much :) - Personally I just need to get a good feel for it before making alterations (but tbh a change is already in the tube).
Hal wrote:and Vicious strikes trait giving passive crit rating to all your strike skills
Yup - can see I haven't been specific on this. Having a fairly high focus on crit, I am simply always slotting Vicious making it a permanent add to my count. But I have failed to mention that. Furthermore, this does needs to be factored in in an upcoming edit holding the 5% crit.
Yeah that's fine if you want to play around with the numbers and figures some more before you come up with what you feel the optimal crit rating to achieve is. Just remember the vicious strikes crit bonus has to be manually added to your crit chance (cause it doesn't affect your entire crit chance, but your chance to crit with your single target skill, so you're single target crit rating is ~1350 higher than what your crit states). Look forward to seeing more on this and what you decide on the matter
Personally, I am only working Blade Wall when going AoE DPS, 3+3. On ST I can maintain a more than sufficient amount of fervour pips on Improved Wild Attack, Swift and Remorseless alone making the Beserker 4 piece working really well for me - as I get that small boost to crit and phys mastery. It seems to me you haven't been giving the Beserker a fair chance. And calling it crap is way off. Again, different ways - and this point needs to be recognized. By everyone in the kin. Building characters is something of personal preference and having people stating "one way only" is fail. There are of course better ways in some areas - but calling only one route on an area such as armour (which really holds many possibilities depending on rotation) is not right.
That's fair enough if you can maintain a sufficient fervour pool using that rotation and I can see why you might opt to go for a 4/2 set up. Personally through abuse of the 3 set Storm bonus I also maintain a more than sufficient fervour pool (so much so that i'm more limited by power than by fervour generation :p), so am more than happy with how it is working for me, which is probably why i recommend the 3 set storm so much, cause i feel the bonus is godly and would be very reluctant to break it. I must apologise for calling the beserker 3 set bonus crap (I confused it with the orthanc red 3 set bonus - brutal strikes reduced the cooldown of seeking blade by 2 seconds). Indeed the fervour return on a remoreless crit can be most handy, providing we're abusing seeking blade and remoreless strikes and have a sufficient crit chance. Its not that I haven't given the berserker set a fair chance (3 set bonus mistake aside), I just don't feel it offers quite as much as the storm 3 set.

To compare the two bonuses:

Beserker set
-Up to 2 fervour return
-Higher base crit chance (thanks to vicious strikes)
-Guaranteed way to proc return (thanks to seeking blade)
-Remoreless uses significantly more power

Storm set
-Up to 10 fervour return (5 targets, double strike) or Up to 2 fervour return (assuming single mob)
-Lower crit chance compared to beserker
-More spammable due to requiring no fervour (4.2 second cd for blade wall vs 1.8 second cd for remoreless but remoreless needs 4 fervour ofc)
-Less power intensive than remoreless

There's certainly argument for going either way, as both of us can attest to, but together they can make an almost undepletable fervour pool. And yes I certainly agree that build preferance is a personal thing, as long as it does what its supposed to (ie no tactical champs running around :P), something that I perhaps failed to put across when i was writing my overly zealous feedback :P
As for the merging of traits and races? Meh... doesn't see it. Race may be the a common joint - but trait lines being collected runs stronger. Kind of like the current setup - no problems on the add-ons :)
That's fine with me, was just a suggestion due to the fact that the bonus weapon damages are racial traits, and not racial passives, so felt it might have been better incorporate under a joint banner, since you effectively had the racial traits split across 2 sections

Hal wrote:But remoreless costs ~1.5 time as much power as a brutal strike (for relatively similar damage depending on crits). Remoreless works well for burst, but brutal is better for sustained dps (also before the interupt changes, clobber could be used to cut short the brutal animation, allowing for a quicker rotation and therefore more damage, for the same fervour cost and less power cost)
Yes, it is expensive in power as I have pointed out in one of the first sections. Raises the point on getting CombatAnalysis and finding ones own rotation FTW. And I didn't find Brutal to come close to Remorseless in damage (as also pointed out in the aforementioned section) - which again may or may not be a consequense of rotation. And yes, Clobber used to be used for cutting animation (this is also mentioned in the guide). But is now a nogo.[/quote]

Yes you did point out the increased power cost and the previous use of clobber, I was just also using them to help back up my point of view, not saying that you had forgotten such things. Again a rotation is a personal thing that you've got to develop (although combat analysis can interfer at times cause people are more concerned with their numbers, as we've seen in raids). We can hand out a rough rotation for people to start with, or even our own if we so wish, but people need to adapt that to suit not onlt their tastes, but the situation at hand
As for the add-ons - can see there are a few typos (Swift Blade for legacy anyone - of course it is Wild Attack :D ). I have left out some of the details on racial traits, race bonuses, legacies and such - and I will keep it that way. At least for now. I like it for new readers to be as simple to read as possible and I am therefore not fond of too many percentages and such (at least no more than has already been stuffed in there). It may not give away the whole truth but it will point to the interesting part of a champ build and help someone new to the class to know what to look for when going for the forums etc.

Whilst I do agree we should try and keep this simple, so that newer and less experienced players will be able to read and understand it, I still feel we should try to use more accurate figures where possible (so saying men get 5% inc healing, dwarves get 1% extra mits, etc)

No problem Wip, I'm happy to read through and help put the guide together.

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