Class: Burglar

Guides & Contributions to guides being written, or that you would like to see
User avatar
Danfast
Second Marshall
Second Marshall
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:28 am
Location: Bucharest
Contact:

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Danfast » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:29 am

Interesting stuff here. I'd like to see something about LI legacies if possible.
My burg is at 44 atm and probably going to get his first LI tonight.
Something with must have legacies on both weapon and tools will be highly appreciated.
I read something about burg legacies and made an idea on the most important ones but the opinions of pro burgs will be better.
Image
Danfast - 85 Gu
Elenarwen - 85 Lm
Elenad - 85 Ch
Healerosi - 85 Mi
Kapetanos - 85 Ca
Hrethgir - 85 Bu
Falaim - 26 Hu
Beryc - 15 Rk
Failmeister - 14 Wd

User avatar
Aedfrith
Posts: 2468
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Aedfrith » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:41 pm

Dagger:
Positional Damage
Cunning Attack
Surprise Strike from Stealth
Subtle Stab Damage
and Feint Attack CD (QK) or Lucky Strike CD (Gambler). I like both :p

Don't worry about trick range or provoke threat. Riddle range is situationally very useful in e.g. Orthanc.

Bag:
Skills Crit Multiplier
Addle CD
Positional Damage
Addle Induction Multiplier

For Gambler also +Gamble Chance (works also in the very interesting 5r/2b provoke mezz from improved feint build), Clever Retort Damage and Healing
Aedfrith - Yarrr! | Aldnoth - Respect mah authoritah!| Hrolfdan - Buurrp! | Rumbold - BAPPLE! | Morriarty - Yak-a-boo! | Hraldan - DORF! | Aldfryd - KYAI PAN TUO KYAI! | Aednoth - BOOM! | Rumbelina - :3 | Mishhar - Grroar!

User avatar
Balthelion
The Almighty
The Almighty
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 pm
Contact:
Stryker’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Balthelion » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:37 pm

Good | Optional/Situational | Bad

Weapon Majors
Critical response skill damage - Absolute must-have legacy. Boosts DPS on your main damage skills.
Cunning Attack bleed stack chance - Great for any traitline for bonus DPS, especially if you crit or devastate the bleeds (which should be a lot)
Burglar skill bleed damage multiplier - Good general DPS improvement.
Feint Attack Cooldown - A must have for QK burg. Useless for Gambler/MM.
Subtle Stab Damage Multiplier - Very nice if you have enough major slots, but less important than the others. Good general DPS improvement as you will be spamming Subtle Stab a lot, especially once you get the improved version as every use reduces the cd on your heal from mischievous delight by 5s.
Position Surprise Strike from Stealth - Mostly for soloing, or QK burgs using Improved Feint Attack before SS
Surprise Strike Critical Rating - You have enough crit, and there are more important legacies
Small Snag Cooldown - Useless unless you're a MM burg, which never happens.

Weapon Minors
Subtle Stab Critical Multiplier A good addition to DPS, but if you were lucky with majors, you probably won't have room for it, as points will usually be spent already on other things.
Riddle Range - a little bit extra range for convenience during raiding. Nice as a trash legacy for spending leftover points in.
Tricks Range - a little bit extra range for convenience during raiding. Nice as a trash legacy for spending leftover points in.
Lucky Strike Cooldown - A must-have for Gambler burglars. Useless for QK/MM.
Well-placed Strike Cooldown - WPS's induction makes it less than ideal compared to just straigh up DPS. The skill is pathetic unless attacking from behind as well. With a set bonus (such as draigoch) effectively removing the induction its somewhat viable. On the bad side of optional however.
Provoke Threat - Great for agro dumping on your tank. Situational as to whether its worth spending points on however. Perhaps best served as a trash lecacy for leftover points, although Riddle/Trick range would be better options
Ready and Able Cooldown - One for a swap-in weapon at best, as this would waste a slot on a primary weapon.
Location is Everything Cooldown - Not worth the investment

Tools Majors
Skills Critical Multiplier - absolute must-have. Damage multiplier of ALL crits from ALL skills.
Addle Cooldown - A must-have, as you can then spam interupts every 5s which also increase the target's induction times. With RoR also debuffs the targets tactical damage. Lastly, its used to cut short the skill animations of several skills (Flashing Blades, Reveal Weakness...) which makes it important for a DPS rotation.
Positional Damage - Great for all burglars, especially QK burgs who can make extra use of this via stance.
Tricks Duration - A must-have for raiding as your tricks will stay on targets for longer. Means more time DPSing, less spent (re-)debuffing.
Gamble Chance - A must-have for a gamble burglar. Useless for QK/MM.
Increased Healing from Mischievous Glee - Optional. Depends on palyer preference
Off-hand Critical chance - Again, not worth spending points on as you already crit loads.
Devastating Critical Buff Duration - You can devastate a lot, so once you've got the buff active, you should easily be able to refresh it before the 30s timeout. Not worth spending points on.
Aim Cooldown - Not worth the points, especially as once you get improved sneak, all hits from stealth are crits anyway.

Tools Minor
Addle Induction multiplier - Maxed, gives mobs +75% induction timers, which seriously fucks them up. Also covers your ass when using addle as a DPS rotation, as the increased induction time makes it almost impossible to get an induction off even if you just used addle and need it to come off cd in order to interupt. Makes addle incredibly potent - the best interupt in game - and couple with the -Tactical Damage debuff coming in Rohan this skill will be insane.
Sneak Movement speed - Optional. Player preference.
Stealth Level - Optional. Makes a great trash legacy even when unranked.
Hide in Plain Sight Cooldown - Optional. Player preference.
Clever Retort Damage and Healing - Optional. Player preference.
Increased Range for Reveal Weakness - Optional. Player preference. Can be useful for Raiding when you have this on the boss, but may need to move far away from him without losing this debuff.
Pulse Modifier for Glee - The Pulses are very weak. More of them is therefore a waste of points on this costly legacy
Confound Countdown duration - Confound sucks the balls.
Image
GW2: Taikken ~ Vasuuki ~ Artuura
EVE: Marcus Rushe
SW:TOR: Tannik ~ Celandra ~ Korrun
League | Steam | Minecraft: LeoxStryker

User avatar
Aedfrith
Posts: 2468
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Aedfrith » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:07 pm

At some point I (with help from Baz) need to put together a Guide to Gambling. Contrary to popular opinion you do NOT need to trait 5 blue to get benefits out of gambler - but it's by far the easiest way to do so.

Gambler is in some ways far more durable than QK - you sacrifice some DPS (but not all that much, especially if you have burg skill bleed damage and CA bleed stack) for some really, really interesting debuffs, more durability and a couple of extra stuns.
Aedfrith - Yarrr! | Aldnoth - Respect mah authoritah!| Hrolfdan - Buurrp! | Rumbold - BAPPLE! | Morriarty - Yak-a-boo! | Hraldan - DORF! | Aldfryd - KYAI PAN TUO KYAI! | Aednoth - BOOM! | Rumbelina - :3 | Mishhar - Grroar!

User avatar
Danfast
Second Marshall
Second Marshall
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:28 am
Location: Bucharest
Contact:

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Danfast » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:30 pm

Thanks for the help guys and for another epic guide Bal :)
Image
Danfast - 85 Gu
Elenarwen - 85 Lm
Elenad - 85 Ch
Healerosi - 85 Mi
Kapetanos - 85 Ca
Hrethgir - 85 Bu
Falaim - 26 Hu
Beryc - 15 Rk
Failmeister - 14 Wd

andrac
Danger Mouse
Danger Mouse
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:29 am
Location: Neamt, Romania

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by andrac » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:50 am

Boss, u need to help me with an rotation for dps in QK stance. I know most of the burgs may parse over 2k dps but i never had over 1.5 even my agi was high enought, so i am really curious about your rotation.
Andracy - Mins 100 (tailor) | Andrady - RK 100 (scholar) | Andracya - Burg 100 (weaponsmith) | Andrac - Hunt 100 (woodworker) | Gabytza LM 100 (jeweller) | Anduta - Warden 100 (jeweller)

Image
Image

User avatar
Balthelion
The Almighty
The Almighty
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 pm
Contact:
Stryker’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Balthelion » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:12 pm

Pretty much what you would expect for the most part.

Use crit chain as much as possible:
Burglar's Advantage > Double Edged Strike > Flashing Blades > Addle
Burglar's Advantage > Double Edged Strike > Exposed Thrat


Use addle ONLY for flashing blades to cut short the animation so you can get onto the next attack.
Exposed Throat doesn't need it.

Cunning attack / Bleeds
Using Aim will cause not only the normal attack of Cunning attack to crit (or devastate if you have the hytbold QK 5-set bonus), but will do the same for EVERY TICK. Traited (but no legacy), Aim should be on a 1m cd.

Cunning Attack is quite under appreciated by many burgs, who simply see the bigger number from suprise strike. But consider that you can do 2 Cunning Attacks for every 1 Surprise Strike, and the DoT has a 66% chance to stack (with maxed legacy). Even without the stack, one cunning attack can out-dps one surprise Strike (but, ofc you need to be hitting the mob long enough for all the ticks to apply). Surpise Strike is great for your opening attack from Stealth, but generally once in combat (in groups at least) I'll use Cunning Attack and Subtle Stab more/first.

The Hytbold QK armour bonuses increase your cunning attack damage and makes every aim devastate instead of crit. It's good to make use of this in your rotation. Don't forget that cunning attack gets damage bonuses for both attacking from stealth, and from behind. Achieving both means a LOT more DPS.

Cunning Attack (on its own, as often as possible)
Improved Feint Attack > Cunning Attack (When IFE is available)


I will always use IFE for this purpose, unless we're in a situation where I feel the need to do IFE > Provoke on the tank is more important than max DPS (Orthanc Lightning T2HM etc)

Buffs & Debuffs

Traited Improved Counter Defence is the win for most situations. Something like Durchest T2 HM would however be a situation where you might consider traited Disable instead.

Get Reveal Weakness up early. This is the only other skill you should consider using Addle for to cut short the animation. Generally you'll only need to do it once unless you move too far away, so get it done so you can start getting the DPS up, and you probably won't need Addle for a Flashing Blades before Addle is back off coodown. If you do open up the crit chain fast, then just pace yourself with how fast you click each skill, so Addle will be off cooldown before the window to use Flashing Blades times out. Just throw in more other attacks between crit chain skills to pass some time.

Reveal Weakness > Addle > Normal Skills

General Stuff

Always attack from stealth where possible (Improved Feint Attack) for "from stealth" damage bonuses
Always attack from behind where possible for "in position" bonuses.

-----

That's all i can think of without being logged in.

Hope that helps :)
Image
GW2: Taikken ~ Vasuuki ~ Artuura
EVE: Marcus Rushe
SW:TOR: Tannik ~ Celandra ~ Korrun
League | Steam | Minecraft: LeoxStryker

User avatar
Arc
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Arc » Thu May 30, 2013 3:31 pm

Bal, now that Fyore has completed her alternative journey down the 'path less trodden', would it be possible for you to do a guide from the perspective of LEVELING a Burg the Gambler route?
Some tips, advice and suggestions from your in-depth knowledge and experience; what to do and not to do, what to focus on and what to stay away from. Something that answers questions like: From when can I actually start playing Gambler, if that's all I want to focus on? How should I trait while leveling? Which stance would be best to use early on? and such things...

There are some Gambler guides out there, but they are really dry and 'technical' - i.e. "tier X of gamble Y gives effect Z... yadda yadda..." and so on. That's all fine if you want e.g. a reference sheet to look up a certain number/effect or the like. But from what I can see there is very little (if anything) about actually PLAYING a Gambler - particularly if not already at level cap with access to all skills and such already!

From what I can tell, it seems to me that the earliest possible time to start using Gambles would be level 27. This because that is when you get a 3rd class trait slot opening up, and 3 blue traits enables Startling Twist to do a damaging gamble. 2-set bonus on the Gambler line gives a gamble on Clever Retort, but that skill won't be available until level 30 it seems. If I've missed something important, please do tell me. :)
I have been running in Mischief stance the entire time so far - simply because of the Riddle cooldown, which I find the most useful of all stance effects early on. This stance also seems to be a requirement to even use Clever Retort when I do get it at lvl 30. But the question is of course if it's more advantageous to switch to Gamble stance and rely solely on Startling Twist, or stay in Mischief?

Anyway, I'm hoping to see a Gambler guide here soon. I know there are many who can give advice on playing Gambler at cap/higher levels - and that would of course be appreciated as well - but I think only you can share insight on actually leveling fully in that alternative route, Bal! :D
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

User avatar
Balthelion
The Almighty
The Almighty
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 pm
Contact:
Stryker’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Balthelion » Thu May 30, 2013 4:25 pm

Sure, this gives me something that's actually of educational value to ramble about in my spare time at work :mrgreen:

Short answers:

If you've got blues, slot them. Even if the trait itself is crap, but gets you an additional traitline bonus.

Gambling starts as early as you can get the traits, but yes, it doesnt really start coming into its own until about the 30's, and like all of the burglar traitlines, doesn't hit full flow until the late level 50's once you've got your capstone skills and legendary traits, backed up by the legacies to make their respective skills run on a 15s timer.

For me (and as silly as it sounds, i'm being serious), Gambler is the tanking stance :mrgreen: Mischief is indeed probably the most useful stance for leveling any type of burglar

Theres more to gambles than just the ones from the traitlines bonuses. Individual traits can apply gambles to skills (EG, Diversion applying a debuffing gamble). Though ofc to use diversion means you need to be instealth, which means no Riddle
Image
GW2: Taikken ~ Vasuuki ~ Artuura
EVE: Marcus Rushe
SW:TOR: Tannik ~ Celandra ~ Korrun
League | Steam | Minecraft: LeoxStryker

User avatar
Balthelion
The Almighty
The Almighty
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 pm
Contact:
Stryker’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Class: Burglar

Post by Balthelion » Thu May 30, 2013 9:36 pm

The Gamburguide

Quiet Knife Vs Gambler

Quiet Knife has a higher damage output than Gambler, but it focused almost entirely towards DPS

Gambler does less "up front" damage, but has much higher utility - including but not limited to much more CC potential - as a result of things called gambles.


What is a Gamble?

A gamble is a specific type of debuff that the burglar can put on an enemy. Gambles have six tiers of strength - Tier 1 to Tier 6 - and the strength at which it is applied is random. Think of it like rolling a dice - That's how the Gambler gets it's name. There are three types of gambles:

Damaging Gambles

Damaging gambles are essentially strong 15 second bleeds. A Tier 6 damaging gamble is a very strong bleed indeed. The actual damage the bleed will do is dependant on your stats and gear.


Debuffing Gambles

Debuffing gambles apply a debuff to the target for 15s. What gets debuffed, and it's strength, depends on the tier of the gamble:
  • Tier 1: - +15% Attack Speed Duration
  • Tier 2: - +20% Attack Speed Duration, + 5% Miss Chance
  • Tier 3: - +25% Attack Speed Duration, + 10% Miss Chance, -5% Attack Damage
  • Tier 4: - +30% Attack Speed Duration, + 10% Miss Chance, -10% Attack Damage
  • Tier 5: - +35% Attack Speed Duration, + 15% Miss Chance, -15% Attack Damage
  • Tier 6: - +40% Attack Speed Duration, + 20% Miss Chance, -30% Attack Damage
As you can see, a Tier 6 debuffing gamble provides a MASSIVE debuff.


Disabling Gambles

Disabling gambles are basically just a Mez - a breakable stun. The duration of the stun depends on the tier of the gamble when it is applied:
  • Tier 1: - 15s Mez
  • Tier 2: - 20s Mez
  • Tier 3: - 30s Mez
  • Tier 4: - 30s Mez
  • Tier 5: - 40s Mez
  • Tier 6: - 60s Mez
As you can see, a tier 6 gamble applies a REALLY LONG CC effect (the longest in-game).

Disabling gambles also work a little differently, since the Mez can last for more than 15s, and can also be broken before the 15s ends. You will also inflict a debuff on the enemy called "Disabling Gamble" which lasts for 15s. The debuff itself has no effect - It just means that using other skills which can do stuff to a target "with a gamble" can affect this enemy - even after the Mez is broken, but ONLY for the first 15s after the gamble is applied (regardless of how long the Mez was for).


Other Debuffs

Gambles aren't the only effects unique to a Gambler traited burglar. They are also capable of inflicting many other debuffs on enemies, as well as buffing yourselves. Makes sure you read trait and traitline tooltips so you don't miss out!


Early Levels

Low levels (<20) pretty much every class and every traitline breezes through content, although it's very difficult to specialise in your traitlines so early.

Specifically for burglars, it's very easy to play a QK style burglar (IE, see target > nuke target) early on, regardless of traiting. The QK traits essentially just make you do more damage doing the stuff you should already be doing.

Gambler style gameplay however is very much dependant on traiting. No Gambler traiting means no kind of gambling. The deeper you go into the Gambler traitline, the more gambling options will be available to you.

Traiting

If intending to level as a Gambler burglar, you should always have as many blue traits slotted as possible to maximize your gambling abilities. Some traits improve your gambling individually, while the set bonuses for the number of blue traits you have slotted also provide powerful Gambler abilities. Like all of the burglar traitlines, YOU MUST use the capstone legendary skill to get the most out of this traitline.

The first 5 traits are - in my opinion - the best combination of 5 traits in order to unlock your legendary Gambler trait for slotting.

Swift & Subtle
+10% Subtle Stab Damage
If the target has a gamble on it: Debuffs All Resistances for 15s

Subtle stab will be your main non-crit chain attack skill, so a buff to damage on it to make up for not being a Quiet Knife burglar is most welcome. The skill has a 3s cooldown, so it's pretty much spammable, and by later levels, you'll pretty much always have a gamble on the target, so you'll be able to trigger the debuff proc often and easily. At later levels you will get improved subtle stab, which reduces the cooldown of Mischievous Glee (Mischievous Delight) by 5s per use. Since Mishchievous glee will apply a disabling gambling on the target if you have at least 4 gamble traits slotted, this leads to even more gambly goodness.

Cruel Odds
Burglar's Advantage & Double-edged Strike now have a 10% chance to apply a critical vulnerability debuff to your target
If the target has a gamble on it, the chance is increased to 25%

These two skills are your Tier 1 and Tier 2 crit response chain skills, both on a 5s cooldown, and the bread and butter of a burglar's damage. If you proc the debuff, you'll do even more damage from critical attacks! What's more, since later on you should always be able to keep a gamble on the target, you should always have a 25% chance to proc this debuff!

Footpad
+2 Stealth Level
60% Base Chance for diversion to apply a debuffing gamble

When soloing and leveling, you'll be relying on stealth a lot, and you'll continue to do so at the level cap. However, while leveling, you'll frequently find that mobs that are higher levels than you are very good at detecting you in stealth when you try to sneak past, so that +2 stealth level buff will help A LOT. Additionally, you can get a nice cheap debuffing gamble on a target before you even get into combat

Leaf-walker
+20% Stealth Movement Speed
60% Base Chance for Provoke to apply a disabling gamble when used from stealth

Again, stealth is very useful for soloing and leveling, so being able to move about faster helps a lot. If you are trying to sneak through a whole camp of enemies to reach a boss mob, you'll get there way faster. And if you are trying to sneak past a mob that suddenly becomes alert to your presence, you have a much greater chance of walking away before he sees through your stealth and starts attacking.

Honed Wit
-30s Clever Retort Cooldown
Clever retort no longer requires you to be in mischief stance

Both of these are nice upgrades to the skill, especially if you can match it with a legacy on a legendary item to increase the potency of these effects, and/or obtain armour sets which enable the skill to perform both 1 damaging (Red or yellow) and 1 buffing (green or blue) effect. If you can live with Riddle being at a longer cooldown, this makes using the Quiet Knife stance (even as a burglar) a much more tempting prospect, as you can still use Clever Retort, get its effects, and get its gamble outside of mischief stance.

The last three skills are - in my opinion - inferior to the above 5. If while leveling you don't have any better gambler traits, but have class trait slots available, I do however recommend slotting them to get you deeper into the gambler traitline bonuses - until you get a better gambler trait to replace it with.

Side-step
+ [Level x 12] Evade Rating

This trait is just too plain. Some evade and nothing else. As a Burglar, your agility should be very high for your level anyway, so your evade is already high enough that a little more rating won't translate into much of a percentage difference.

Overwhelming Odds
Completing a named fellowship manoeuvre will empower the burglar, based on what conjunction was completed

This one would probably be nicer if CJ's were not ignored as much as they are these days, and could benefit from a slight buff too. Even hen CJ's are performed, at most it's for Pure of Heart, which would trigger the blue and green buffs (basically the worst two). If however you are in a group that WILL use conjunctions for all four colours, and you are co-ordinated enough to do it, then this trait will jsut about become viable as an alternative to the top 5. Basically, you get a buff for every unique colour used in the CJ:
  • Red - +10% direct damage (ie, not over-time) for 20s
  • Yellow - Well-placed Strike & Cunning Attack used within the next 20 seconds will gain an extra 5 pulses.
  • Green - +15% Mischievous Glee healing for 20s
  • Blue - -10% all power costs for 20s
You can only get one buff of each colour per CJ. However if you use two CJs quickly enough, the buffs can stack.

Escape Clause
-300s (5 minutes) Escape Clause cooldown

Escape clause is an underwhelming skill, only really usefull for reseting Touch & Go and Ready & Able. So this is a bit of an underwhelming trait by extension.

More Info

To follow as required. Just ask :)
Image
GW2: Taikken ~ Vasuuki ~ Artuura
EVE: Marcus Rushe
SW:TOR: Tannik ~ Celandra ~ Korrun
League | Steam | Minecraft: LeoxStryker

Post Reply