Class: Captain

Guides & Contributions to guides being written, or that you would like to see
User avatar
Arc
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Class: Captain

Post by Arc » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:23 pm

Aedfrith wrote:If not deep yellow traited and the tank goes down, are there any strategies for quickly grabbing the boss temporarily (particularly peeling them off DPS) while you/the minnie/whoever get the tank back up?
Short answer: No.
Slightly more descriptive answer: Sometimes you might get lucky, but usually the attempt will fail.

Long answer:
In the situation you describe, it would be wiser to leave grabbing of the boss to another tank or a champ - anyone with a (so-called) "force-taunt", really. You can then slap Shield-brother+To Arms on them to help them survive, whilst you have 5-10 seconds in which to get the tank back up. If no resses are available, I'd say your first priority is to keep the healer(s) alive so that they can keep everyone else alive, rather than you healing the champ - particularly if the boss wasn't the only thing being tanked, and the healers are now taking (more) damage. Sure, your added heal may help whoever is tanking as well, but it's usually not enough to keep them alive on your own, and since the shit has hit the fan the healer(s) have probably popped their emergency skills and are already focusing on keeping up whoever has aggro. So keep healers up. :)

If no resses are available and no tanks/heavies left who can grab the boss, then it's pretty much down to you to try and sort out the mess. The problem is, without being traited deep into Leader of Men, the Captain has no "force-taunts". As Grim said, Noble Mark will give you a ToT effect whilst slapping a -10% perceived threat buff on anybody else hitting the targeted mob; the Cutting Attack+Grave Wound combination will enter you into 'Aggressive Stance' for a period of time; and Threatening Shout is just a straight-up instant threat generator (i.e. raises your threat-level by a certain amount, but will NOT 'taunt' a mob to you).

So with these limited tools, what can you do? Well - as mentioned - usually not much, but if used wisely you can sometimes make enough of a dent to succeed in pulling aggro.
Here's what you can do (and I'm going to disagree a bit with Grim's suggested 'rotation' here, and explain why to hopefully make it clear :) ):
1. Stick Noble Mark on the target, giving you more threat whilst lowering the threat of everyone else hitting the target. Hit them with the CA+GW combo entering you into 'Aggressive Stance' which gives you +10% perceived threat on EVERY attack you do to the mob for 30 seconds. Now use Threatening Shout for as much oompf as it can possibly give out. Have you got the aggro yet? In most cases, this would be a 'No'.
2. Whilst 'Aggressive Stance' is still active, now is the time to hit the time to smack the mob with as much damage as you possibly can, to take advantage of the extra threat boost. Use Battle-shout+Devastating Blow, for high damage and also pray that it crits/devastates so you get a defeat response - if it doesn't, use Time of Need to force one. Hit Blade of Elendil to activate the buff from that.
3. Now you really only have one tool left: Shadow's Lament. And you have pre-loaded it with as much extra threat and damage boost as you can. This is it, all in, cards on the table; fire Shadow's Lament and cross your fingers for a high devastating hit! Have you pulled aggro now? If yes, good! If no, then you're pretty much shit out of luck. :P If there's any hope left of a res getting someone up in the immediate future, then pop In Harms Way+Last Stand and buy as much time as you can. Otherwise, just sit back and take the wipe. ;)

(Note: It MIGHT not be a bad idea to throw in Oathbreaker's Shame before doing points 2 & 3, to raise your chances even further. HOWEVER... this would highly depend on what the rest of the group will be doing during those 10 seconds, so you may end up 'shooting yourself in the foot' instead! Use with caution!)

In most cases, you really can't pull the aggro on your own because you're usually far, FAR behind in the threat table. So you often need the help of whoever has aggro currently to be quick on the uptake and STOP generating further threat, and also try and dump/reduce as much threat as they can while you're trying to increase yours as much as possible.

Truth be told, the Captain is more of a 'pre-emptive' class rather than a 'reactive' one. Meaning their job is rather one of PREVENTING the situation you mention from happening in the first place, rather than actually trying to recover it AFTER it has happened. :)
The Captain is probably the most misunderstood and under-appreciated class after the Lore-master, for much the same reason; i.e. when a good Captain is doing his/her job well, you will mostly NOT notice it at all. This brings to mind that rather famous quote by a Lore-master: "Noone notices what I do, until I stop doing it!" :D
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

User avatar
Arc
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:59 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Class: Captain

Post by Arc » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:31 pm

Grim wrote:Wouldn't be so quick to discount agi at this point arc, seeing as the miss fix doesnt really seem to have worked. On my guardian I still have around a 15% chance against on level mobs so am trying to build agi back into his build.
Are you sure that's down to Miss Chance though? Because that is just one of the components involved in a mob's chances to negate your attacks. Others are Block, Parry, Evade and - if we're talking end game mobs here (particularly in instances etc.) - I think Finesse might also be involved here.
The patch notes/dev diary is pretty clear on the point that this particular component of negation (as well as Agility's affecting of that part) has been completely removed. Whether this is actually working correctly at the moment I cannot say, but if it's not then it should be resolved in an upcoming Update (or patch).

For a Guardian it would make a lot of sense to build Agi as well, because of the aforementioned boosts to Parry and Evade from it. But given the current 'official' information (such as it is :P), a non-tanking Captain should have little use for Agility nowadays - at the very least far less use than before Update 9! :D
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

User avatar
Hal
RIVEN!!!
RIVEN!!!
Posts: 1340
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:05 pm

Re: Class: Captain

Post by Hal » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:59 pm

Arc wrote:For a Guardian it would make a lot of sense to build Agi as well, because of the aforementioned boosts to Parry and Evade from it.
Sounds like a sound idea to begin with, until you realise Guards can't evade for **** (which isn't helped by the -2% evade chance from running around with a shield the size of a hobbit on your arm).
Its then further compounded by the fact that Vit doesn't usually come bundled with Agi, so you might have to take some more sub-optimal options to build Agi, sacrificing on your mits.
Even further compounded by the fact that Guards also don't give a f*** if they evade, cause they want to parry and block for skill chains
Convientently Might also gives 2 points to parry (like agi) but 4 to block (instead of evade), and comes more readily bundled on Vit gear, so you don't have to sacrifice mits
And just to thoroughly ground this idea, is that raw block/parry/evade stat will give more to your ratings than agi will

Oh and also SWORDS!!! DAT PARRY BONUS!!!

Though I can see why Grim took some agi in the past (and even now since the removal of miss chance seems a bit buggy), cause otherwise he misses everything and is just a big ornament :P

Grim
Captain General
Captain General
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:05 pm
Location: Liverpool/Sutton

Re: Class: Captain

Post by Grim » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:44 pm

O Hal, you just get me ;)

Exactly what hal said! Not much point building agi for evade because you have to overcome the shield debuff before you get anywhere, might does parry and deficit is made up by buffs, so I literally only have agi to mitigate miss chance - nothing worse than missing a mob on the first hit of a fight and immediately losing it. But yes I'm sure its still miss chance arc. Finesse doesn't affect misses, just b/p/e. And yes I'm definitely not imagining it because I still getting miss popping up over every mobs head every few hits! I know the patch notes are clear about misses being removed, but the patch clearly isnt WAI right now.

As for captains and agi, I still rate it for them. Parry and evade are always useful cappys, especially as the don't always have a shield (or LoM capstone) to allow blocks, and crit is evidently useless even if the amount gained from raw agi is comparatively small. Damn sight more useful than fate at any rate! Really don't underestimate the avoidances even if not tanking. Nothing more satisfying than parrying/evading/blocking a hit from a guldur brute in SG or the last boss in WP if something goes sideways. Thats potentially saved you from 5-10ks worth of healing, or just straight death!
Grimhelmd - 75 Guardian
Turrion - 75 Captain
Tergon - 75 Loremaster
Terrann - 20 Warden
Grimthryd - 20 Champion
Grimharl - 9 Minstrel
Grimfoil - 1 Burglar

User avatar
nostborn
Disturber of the Peace
Disturber of the Peace
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:53 pm
Location: UK

Re: Class: Captain

Post by nostborn » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:43 pm

Agi is not essential for a captain though does help in areas. I would say if your sensible you can get better might get with a lot more pure crit than agi will ever give you. Any agi between 3 and 5 hundred is fine but anything over that is a waste
EvE - Nostborn Amatin / Steam - Nostborn / Raptr - Nostborn

https://zkillboard.com/character/93160905/

Post Reply