Dome of Stars T2 Today 19.30 UK - FULL

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Tarahen
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Re: Dome of Stars T2 Today 19.30 UK - FULL

Post by Tarahen » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:48 pm

Well, after a short chat with the LM who came in the runs I did, (s)he said that there was no CC in the Mumak fight. Just warden picks all of them. When using a guard, suggested capt tanks the mumak and guard collects and tanks the adds. That, and lots of AoE (champ, fire rk...)
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Pergarwe1
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Re: Dome of Stars T2 Today 19.30 UK - FULL

Post by Pergarwe1 » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:29 pm

I used DNFTD through out the fight to keep the healer up, but the healer was dying too often so it would be on CD. So I do not think that is the solution to the healer problem.

For DPS bit, the Champ on his own could not take down the Venom guys quickly enough so I switched over to help out. This worked better, but when I switched back over to the Mammoth I want to drop writs of fire first to get more DPS, burning time while the debuff is in effect. I am thinking it might be better if the Fire RK stays on the mammoth and the Hunter and Champ take out the Venom guys.

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Arc
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Re: Dome of Stars T2 Today 19.30 UK - FULL

Post by Arc » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:27 pm

Well, my thoughts on this is much along the lines of what Tara already summarised above.

When analysing these kinds of things, I usually prefer going 'back to basics' as it were; try to find a (simple) general problem and then apply a general solution to it.
The issue here, as I see it, isn't the mumak at all; it is the adds - more to the point: getting (and keeping) all the incoming adds on a sturdy target, to keep them from killing healer and damage dealers. This is why I maintain - and which is also echoed in what Tara said above - it is much better to in this fight have an off-tank to help deal with all the adds that the main tank can't really handle effectively, just like there used to be in the olden days; e.g. a yellow Captain would be ideally suited for this (or a Warden etc.)
Whether or not to have a yellow Captain on the adds and e.g. a Guard on the mumak, or the other way around, is something that needs to be tested in practice, I think. However, I'm not sure it would matter either way. It all comes down to being able to quickly lock aggro on 3 adds at once; I know the Captain can easily do that, and I'm sure a Guard can as well.

An added benefit of having a yellow Captain is the MUCH enhanced group support and versatility they bring over a red Captain, apart from the tanking/aggro aspect: added healing, greatly increased Incoming Healing, damage reduction, damage redirection...
Also, this would mean that the highest global threat that new adds see when they come in won't be the healer anymore - the healing threat from a yellow Captain would be far above the main healer. And also, therefore, high above the damage dealers as well.
This means that the main survivability issue will, in large part, effectively have been solved 'for free', so to speak.
Healer isn't being hit, only the tank and Captain is taking any damage at all, and thus healing 1-2 targets should not be an issue.


So, that is the main issue - survivability - sorted. Now onto the next issue: killing the mumak.
Let's do a quick calculation:
Under the assumptions of 5.2M morale on the mumak, and taking into account a 5-minute timer restriction attached to that as well, this works out to 17333 total DPS during that time period. With 3 damage dealers in the group hitting the mumak the whole time (as much as possible, that is), it can easily be seen that this should be much of a problem to do. I know I'm far from perfectly geared (and probably nowhere near the 'best' skill rotation either), but I was sustaining about 5k DPS on my own the whole time - and about 6.5k DPS when Burning Hot. Better Hunters than I would be doing far more, as would fire RKs, Wardens, probably Champs as well (and maybe even good Burgs, I dunno). 17333 total DPS averaged on 3 damage dealers is 5777 DPS per person, which seems highly possible on it's own. Add to that the fact that the tank is doing damage to the mumak as well - I'm guessing somewhere in the 1-2k DPS range - and pretty much the same for the off-tank, so this dilutes even further.

I feel it also worth noting that this 300s timer before the 'Enraged' buff on the mumak kicks in, isn't really of vital importance - in other words: it isn't a HARD limit. On our best attempt (the one with ~120k morale left or something) we were easily surviving about 2 minutes AFTER the timer had expired and the mumak had become enraged. From what I remember, I couldn't really see Obi being in serious trouble even with this huge damage buff. And even if it would be serious there are numerous emergency skills to handle this over short-to-mid-range time, to extend survivability. I'm not exactly sure what particular defensive capabilities the Guard has in this area (Fortification, Juggernaut, Pledge?) although I'm pretty confident they have adequate skills in their arsenal to make them nearly invincible for a time and, again, the yellow Captain has many skills to do exactly this as well (so could even take over tanking the mumak at this point, if they weren't already!). And again: with the healer only having 1-2 targets max to focus on with all the adds being under control, the healing should be sufficient even for this (assuming of course adequate defenses are active to nullify possible 1-shots).

Since we therefore know the fight can be extended past the 5-minute mark (by 1-2 minutes at least), this in turn reduces the total DPS needed on the mumak; with 1 extra minute this becomes 14444 DPS, and with 2 extra minutes it drops to 12381 DPS. This works out to 4815 DPS and 4127 DPS, respectively, per person for 3 damage dealers (tank and off-tank not included, but will reduce these numbers further).


My conclusion from this analysis is that damage buffs aren't needed at all. Staying alive seems to be the only real issue here, and having both a main tank and an off-tank to quickly get control of all the adds coming in should solve that problem. And, by extension, solve the whole fight as well. A yellow Captain (or a Warden) seems to be the ideal solution to that problem, with no real loss at all but instead a significant gain to the group and their chance of successful completion of this encounter.

Also, on the subject of AoE damage: There seems to be conflicting reports of whether or not to do AoE (and/or kill adds) in this fight. My thoughts on that matter is to just stay on the mumak as main target, and AoE if you want. The adds have fairly high morale (about 86k or something, iirc?) they shouldn't really be that many of them dying anyway, so not much of a risk getting 'swarmed' by new adds (any additional ones coming in from this should be few and far between, and can easily be handled by the off-tank anyway). If a venom-arrow or two dies from the AoE and drops a cloud on the mumak then it would help speed things up a bit, sure, but it actually doesn't seem to be necessary to completing the fight, as per the above analysis. Just staying on the mumak the whole time and keeping up constant damage should be more than enough, it seems.
Of course, the AoE matter is still a bit of an unknown parameter in this, and needs to be tested in practice for more surety.

One thing I agree on though is regarding positioning. I think Obi's suggestion about the tank being positioned at the edge between spawn points 1 & 2 is a good one. In addition to this, I would say try to keep healer and ranged DPS grouped up in the exact middle of the plaza (with melee directly beneath the poop-chute of the mumak, of course). This means that the one getting the red eye will have a large area completely free of group members, to kite the mumak in. The kiting should be done slowly in a large oval along the far edges of the area and NOT running quickly in short(er) circles - because the mumak is slow and will not follow the running path, but will instead cut corners and take the shortest, most direct route possible to the kiter, which means trampling through the group in the middle if the kiter runs too fast and/or not in a wide enough oval! This is bad, mmmkay. Pull it slowly but surely around the middle group - and not through them. :)

This is pretty much all I have for now, I think. I might think of more stuff later. :)
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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