How Interested Are You In Raids?

[Khynareth]

My level 60 is very recent and I will read all ingame mail about raids and try to participate ASAP.

The Rift is a good Raid training from lvl 49 on. I helped me a lot getting used to the chaos that raid fights generally are

[Cattiwen]

Seems the most appropriate place to put this - I would propose that those signed up as reserves for any raid get first dibs on the next raid of the same type. This encourages people to sign up for the raids, even as reserves. It also means that those not able to monitor the forums all the time get a chance to get on raids (I know we rotate, but we don't really differentiate same person but different toon. I know we can "ask" someone to stand aside for someone who hasn't run, but this more formalises the process such people will know when their opportunity to raid is).

Reserve personnel who do get subbed into a raid because someone has to leave don't get penalised for the next run (i.e. they're still first choice for the next run).

This should mean that reserves make a bit more sense (i.e. being 3rd reserve for dps means that you're unlikely to get into the current raid as a dps slot, however you're guaranteed a run next time). Of course we also rely on the fact that the people who sign up are commited to run the whole raid.

[nostborn]

i quite like the idea, right now reserves just sit there

[Wiploc]

I agree.
It could solve quite a few issues. The idea can be fine-tuned as we go along - depending on the number of reserves.

[Cattiwen]

Right I've just picked myself up off the floor

To clarify something:

Reserve personnel who do get subbed into a raid because someone has to leave don't get penalised for the next run (i.e. they're still first choice for the next run).

Obviously if a reserve goes in from the beginning (i.e. runs the whole raid) they drop off the next run. If the person they subbed for had a genuine and good reason for dropping, they essentially take the reserve's place - if they simply turn up late for no good reason they miss that run and go on the end of the reserves for the next run (almost like a suicide list). I would also propose that if you have an alt, they can go on the reserves list but be prepared to make way for someone's main who hasn't had a run yet. This is not withstanding raid leaders with priority and those positions we can't fill (so we go back to first signups and ask again).

This, I think, is the fairest way of treating things. If we know our raid schedule it should be easy enough to post signups a week ahead giving a good chance to have a full list of firsts and reserves.

[Grim]

Id like to be implement this idea in some form, but its going to be tough to organise for a few reasons that come to mind (assuming weekly runs):

- Essentially means raid leader cant fill in any signups until everyone whos going to signup, has signed up, reserve or otherwise. Otherwise he cant know what reserves from the preivous week want to come, and who of the previous weeks raiders want to come (to fill the group). This may cause problems with people not knowing if theyr'e raiding or not; personally if I know I'm not raiding on a particular night, I'm likely to go out but cant organise anything until I know if Im needed or not. Could cause problems, as reserves are generally the people who sign up later.

- What if, in week A I sign up as a reserve but am unable to make the next weeks (week B) run? Does my 'reserve' status carry over to week C? If so, what happens to the reserves from week B?

- Should reserves be handled by player or by character? If I sign my dps character up as a reserve for a run but end up bringing my captain/healer out of necessity, is my dps character still 'reserved' for the next week?

Some sort of solution definitely needs to be found for this problem, as a few players are seriously missing out on raids, simply due to not being online exactly when signup threads hit the forum. But that solution needs to show clearly who is signed up, not penalise people who cannot be there every week and not stop people from playing the characters they really want to play. Im also slightly wary of the fact that having reserves for the next week, is essentially the same as putting the signup sheet on the forums early - having lots of people on week As thread basically signing up for week B (and possibly even week C) is going to get very confusing very quickly. Thoughts?

[Balthelion]

a good idea in theory, however as grim pointed out there are a lot of issues it would cause for organisation.

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How about a three stage system

a) Apply for signup, got in the raid
b) Apply for signup, didn't get in the raid, book me in for next week
c) apply for late signup/reserve, put down as reserves for the current week.

So a player says:
a) Sign me up for this week, or next week if we're full/ can't accomodate my class
b) sign me up for this week only / reserves if full

[Egelinath]

Another issue to think about is what to do with a multi-night raid? (i.e. BG, OD, Orthanc) Does the reserve get the 2nd/3rd night's spot? Or will they have to wait until the next week's raid schedule?

[Grim]

Had considered something similar bal, but am concerned its too close to just putting the next signup sheet up early and will be hard to keep track of.

Been thinking about it and cattis idea of a suicide list like arrangment might well work:

- Would be very similar to a queue - the closer you are to the top (front) of the queue, the more likely you are to get a spot on the raid.
- If there is more than one signup to a particular spot, the queue list is checked and whoever is higher on the list takes priority and the spot in the raid.
- If you obtain a spot through this method, then you are sent to the back of the queue (suicided).
- If you are assigned a spot on the raid which no one else wants, you are NOT sent to the back of the queue (suicided) - this allows players the oppurtunity to bring the characters they really want to play, without being penalised for being forced to bring characters which are not necessarily their first choice because no one is available.

Suicide lists are relatively easy to create and maintain if Im not mistaken so wouldnt be a problem to set up - what do you think? I know it may sound a bit complicated for just signing people up to a raid, but if we share loot in this way, why shouldnt we share raid time in the same way?

[Hal]

I think we should hold off on this idea for at least another couple of weeks since when the raiding schedule starts back up after new year we'll have 2 orthanc runs weekly so we don't know how this will affect the reserves pool. We might end up with very few reserves thanks to 24 people being booked in each week so such a system may be unnecessary.

I'm also concerned that such a system can be exploited. eg. I can't make this weeks raid but i'll sign myself up as a reserve knowing that doing so will ensure i get a place on the next weeks raid so i don't have to compete next week.

I also have grim's reservations that this system will potentially mean the raid list fills up a week in advance and the reserves list becomes the sign up list for the next week