Suicide List Retirement

Place your democratic votes in all major kin decisions here!

Do you agree with retiring the suicide list?

Yes - Let's do one final suicide for everyone and retire the list
12
80%
No - Let's keep the list in use for now
0
No votes
Other - Please Reply
3
20%
 
Total votes: 15

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Balthelion
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Suicide List Retirement

Post by Balthelion » Fri May 03, 2013 9:35 am

As we are all aware, The Suicide list is getting very little use at present due the fact that most endgame content that exists these days is using the new auto-loot system. This means that the only content that truly makes use of the Suicide List is Skirmish Raids, with the tiniest possibility of it being used for one or two pieces from Draigoch or Orthanc, if the leader permits it.

As such, It's time to look at retiring the list completely. It was brought in as a measure of ensuring fairness when it came to loot distribution, by ensuring everyone got something shiny for the same amount of effort, and making people think twice about whether they REALLY want the item that's only half decent for them (that others in the group may be desperate to get) or whether to hold out for that awesome drop that they most definately do want.

The new auto-loot system brings in it's own measure of fairness. Got 6 agility classes in the group? Well, your odds of getting that godlike agility earring are still exactly the same as if you were the only person there, instead of 1 chance in 6. And the leader can't ninja it (not that we would in kin ofc!). And the non-agi classes can't roll on it and take it from you. And so on and so forth. Basically - Auto-loot is getting the job done. And it doesn't take a load of time and effort to administrate like the SK list does :)

Turbine certainly want to roll out auto-looting to skirmishes, so it's definately going to happen at some point, at which point the SK list will be useless, and the effort you have put in to achieve your current placement will go to waste.

I therefore propose that we push to use it as much as possible over the coming months, and encourage suiciding. No more new players will be added to the bottom of the list. And anyone who suicides will be removed from the list entirely (they still MUST be suicided before removal to ensure list movement). As usual, if nobody on the list wants an item, it will go to free rolls.

This allows everyone the chance to suicide for one last item, After which we will just rely on free rolls if skirmishes haven't implemented auto-loot, and everything else will be using auto-loot anyway.

The Suicide list will probably be retired permanently (regardless of who is still on it) either when skirmishes get auto-looting, or the release of the Helm's Deep expansion - whichever comes first.

What is everyone's thoughts on this proposal?
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Obion
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Obion » Fri May 03, 2013 10:17 am

Haven't been the most eager person when it comes to SK list, mainly because once suicided it was near impossible to move up again.
But since I haven't been able to come up with a better idea I still think it's the most fair way to distribute loot.
And I think it was a better way than the auto-loot system we have now, since that is just one big lottery. Previously there was a pretty fixed set of items that you know where available. Now you can run hundreds of instances and still have a very slim chance of finding what you're after.
The armour has been moved to be instance gated, which I prefer, but jewelry and similar is looked behind some mysterious lottery system.


Having put up a few skirm raids, the SK list has been used whenever someone wanted to use it and a person able to alter the SK list was available. Lately I haven't really seen the point, mostly because not many was interested in the loot or thought it wasn't good enough to suicide for.

The last runs there where quite alot of new faces, me like it, so the SK-list might be useful once again. But would mean new people have to be added.

To sum it up
Given the current system I don't see much point in keeping the SK-list.
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by andrac » Fri May 03, 2013 10:38 am

To make ppl suiciding from now on is hard because we dont have for what to suicide. Let presume i do a Draigoch and i will suicide for scales just to not get with the bare hands from there. I could do that and won 300 g quickly but i am not the type. And all the ppl will know that i am doing that on purpose. Also we had recently some new ppl joining our raids and using SK without them being on the list ... also not fair. Shame though for the ppl who waited so much time to have a better position there but nothing we can do about it.

On short, close it. Only for Draigoch and skirms ... not much worth.
Only that ... let presume after autoloot the leader will use SK and redistribute the loot acording to the SK (taking the loot from those who won it). Do you find this an option? IMO i doubt...
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Balthelion » Fri May 03, 2013 10:43 am

Personally I think that making people give up the items they have already won via auto-loot to the leader to then redistribute is bad idea, for reasons i've discussed in the past. We don't want to become loot nazis.
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Tarahen » Fri May 03, 2013 11:57 am

I never liked SK too much. I can see the fairness unsing it, but sometimes becomes annoying, when you spend the same amount of time doing the raid and distributing its loot. Well, probably that's an overstatement, but you know what I mean. Maybe it's that I'm not that concerned about loot. Now there's autoloot, new people arriving to kin... SK getting less useful. When people rolls only for what they need, as it happens in kin, I find master looter fair enough.
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Aedfrith » Fri May 03, 2013 1:58 pm

Balthelion wrote:Personally I think that making people give up the items they have already won via auto-loot to the leader to then redistribute is bad idea, for reasons i've discussed in the past. We don't want to become loot nazis.
Completely agree. The only reason for the list atm is Draig scales, which I'd hope people would be wise enough to leave for people who genuinely need them, or skirms. And to be honest there are very few skirm items now (there are SOME, but not many) that are better than what you can get from auto-loot/buy in the AH. I'd also suspect that in time you'd be able to buy Draig scales from the crafting vendor just as you can with cracked rhi sigils.

So I vote we retire it when skirms go auto-loot, if not earlier.
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Xothir » Fri May 03, 2013 2:29 pm

Aye ditch suicide, However could implement a simple systems for the places where there is no autoloot te.x skrims.
Rolls, 1-100 = need for mainspec or the like.
101-200 = Need for offspec, for example like i would take a chank piece.
201-300 = Basicly if you want it for cosmetics or some other evil plot.

Just an example worked in other games ive played.
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Panthelion » Fri May 03, 2013 3:35 pm

I mostly agree with what other kinnies have said, so as there's no real point in having SK list on at the moment, I think we should retire it.
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Balthelion » Tue May 07, 2013 9:10 am

If you still haven't voted but want to have your say, do it by the end of the week.

That said, it seems clear in which direction the outcome is going.
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Re: Suicide List Retirement

Post by Balthelion » Tue May 14, 2013 10:36 am

OK well the voting seems to be clear.

To anyone organising events over the coming months:
  • Where possible (eg, Skirms, Draigoch, Orthanc, Old raids even for cosmetics) offer people the chance to suicide for stuff.
  • Don't add any more new people to the list - Just treat them as if they have already suicided this evening - EG, if nobody on the list wants an item, it goes to free rolls for everyone.
  • If someone wants to suicide for something - Suicide them first (to ensure everyone else moves up the list), THEN delete them off the list.
  • If there are still people on the list at the launch of Helm's Deep (or possibily an earlier date if appropriate), all remaining people will just be deleted, and will not be able to cash in on their suicide list advancement.
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