Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

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Arc
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Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Arc » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:57 pm

Hi all,

What with recent changes to levels as well as stats - and Update 12.2 also bringing a re-tweaking of the calculations for Block, Parry and Evade chances - (and because I'm somewhat bored atm and my brain needs/wants something to do) I wanted to collate as much data as possible on various attributes in order to do some curve-fitting and 'reverse engineer' the formulas used for calculating them. Yes, I know! Great fun! :P
But in order to do this, I need help from as many of you as possible!
When finished, this information will hopefully have been enough to result in formulas to accurately calculate a certain attribute, and those formulas will then be added to the information/guide section on the forums. :)

"What type of data is needed?"
I will be looking at ALL of the ratings-to-percentage attributes; such as e.g. mitigations, incoming/outgoing healing and B/P/E - but also partial B/P/E and even critical and devastating critical hit chance!

"How can I help with this?"
Along with your character's level (and class), please provide as accurately as possible the relevant numbers related to a particular attribute. Providing several measurements/data points for the same attribute (e.g. multiple gear configurations for the same char level) will also be greatly appreciated, as would attribute information from different char levels than only lvl 95 - since this is a curve-fitting across the whole level spectrum all levels are of equal importance so everyone can participate! :D
Important: Please also note (and mention) if the attribute you're providing information about is being modified by a straight percentage (i.e. non-rating) through traits, skills or gear - such as e.g. Burglar blue +Evade%, Guardian stance +Block%, or Race of Man +IncHeal% etc.

The following is a list of the numbers I would like you to provide:
  • Critical Hit: Rating, as well as Critical chance percentage and Devastating chance percentage (for Melee/Ranged/Tactical if different).
  • Finesse: Rating, as well as resist reduction percentage and B/P/E reduction percentage.
  • Physical/Tactical Mastery: Specify which mastery, the rating, as well as percentage for damage increase - and in the case of Tactical, also Outgoing Healing percentage.
  • Resistance: Rating and percentage.
  • Critical Defence: Rating and percentage - specify Melee/Ranged/Tactical in case of difference.
  • Incoming Healing: Rating and percentage.
  • Block/Parry/Evade: Specify which avoidance(s), the rating, percentage of avoidance as well as partial avoidance, and damage mitigated.
  • Physical/Tactical Mitigation: Specify which mitigation, as well as rating and percentage.
If I have missed anything, please feel free to add it.

"Wow, that is a lot! Do I really have to write down EVERYTHING on the entire list?!?"
No! You don't! You can provide as much or as little data as you want/feel up to! :)
If you want to give data for all of the points on the list - awesome! If you only want to pick one, or three - say Resistance, Parry and Tactical Mitigation - that's fine too! Every little bit helps, but the more data points are given for a certain attribute, the more accurate the formula will be! :D

Oh, and if someone wants to help out with the actual math work after the data sets have been collated (can't imagine anyone else being that crazy, but still...) then by all means; give a shout! :mrgreen:

(Also, could one of the moderators please sticky this thread for the time being? At least until sufficient data has been collected. Thanks!)
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Arwat
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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Arwat » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:05 pm

Hej!

I was not sure what data you really want but is this screen capture of a plugin enough?

Image

This is from a 43 Hunter, the Stat1 column is fitted and the Stat2 column is... for lack of a better word, "naked" :P

Tbh I didn't check if the plugin does the calculations or if it just gets the values from the game. I think it's the latter.

Anyway, if this is enough just tell me and I'll do the same for the other chars.
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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Balthelion » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:18 am

What I will say is remember there are currently 3 separate level bands for the formulas:

1-50
51-85
86-95

Each time you jump a band your "ratings to percentage" will take a nerf, as you'll need much more rating under each new formula to achieve the same percentages.
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Arc
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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Arc » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:19 pm

Arwat wrote:Hej!

I was not sure what data you really want but is this screen capture of a plugin enough?

{pic}

This is from a 43 Hunter, the Stat1 column is fitted and the Stat2 column is... for lack of a better word, "naked" :P

Tbh I didn't check if the plugin does the calculations or if it just gets the values from the game. I think it's the latter.

Anyway, if this is enough just tell me and I'll do the same for the other chars.
That image looks pretty nice, yes. If you could just (manually) verify that the ratings and percentages listed on it ARE indeed fetched from the player data, and not calculated (possibly based on old/inaccurate relations) by the plugin itself, that would be much appreciated. The fact that there is a Column2 showing "naked" values makes me a bit concerned, to be honest. :?

Balthelion wrote:What I will say is remember there are currently 3 separate level bands for the formulas:

1-50
51-85
86-95

Each time you jump a band your "ratings to percentage" will take a nerf, as you'll need much more rating under each new formula to achieve the same percentages.
Really?? Separate bands, you say? That's honestly the first I've heard about it. :shock:
Any (official, maybe?) source on this? Not saying that you're wrong (I have seen some weird anomalies in certain data, that I haven't yet been able to explain or account for, and this could possibly be a reason for it), but I'm interested to know how/where you came by this information?

If this is indeed the case, then I would be very, very interested in obtaining data from characters specifically when crossing the boundary from one "band" to another (i.e. 50->51 and 85->86); a snapshot of all values immediately before and after leveling up (preferably with the exact same gear, traits and so on)! It would be much appreciated if anyone could provide this - particularly from the lower (50->51) crossing, as I'm unable to obtain that from myself! :(

To anyone leveling up their alts from 85 to 95, the corresponding information there would be very useful!
Thanks.

Important REMINDER for everyone providing data: Please, please make sure to check (and, preferably, double-check) if there are any straight percentage (not RATING) modifiers in effect (e.g. traits, skills, gear or such) for the data you're providing! If there are, I need to know about them (source, and how much it modifies) in order to compensate for the result, as these WILL otherwise mess up the data by introducing a fairly large (unknown) error source.
An example of what I mean here: A Burglar blue trait provides +1-5% Evade Chance (depending on rank); the Evade rating will be the same regardless, but the percentage value listed along with it will depend on if the trait is used, and to which rank - thus skewing the result and need to be compensated for! :)
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Balthelion » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:06 pm

Arc wrote:Really?? Separate bands, you say? That's honestly the first I've heard about it. :shock:
Any (official, maybe?) source on this? Not saying that you're wrong (I have seen some weird anomalies in certain data, that I haven't yet been able to explain or account for, and this could possibly be a reason for it), but I'm interested to know how/where you came by this information?
I read it somewhere from a blue name, can't recall where. If it was in the Bullroarer forum it's long gone. This was for U12 (HD Launch) so should still be current (The parry formula(e) have changed since then but bands should apply.

I might be out by one level depending on which side of the bands each level falls. I couldn't recall my warden losing stats after logging him in at 85, so i assumed the final band started at 86, etc.

I do distinctly remember there being three bands though. The last is definately for the HD level range. The other one I *think* was 50, but I might be mistaken on that one (could be 65 instead for example). Certainly bands are nothing new, Turbine's operated this way for a while to deal with sudden bumps in stats between expansions (Most notably HD and Isengard).

Lower levels (<50) Also have hard caps on percentages too, so you couldn't just create a lv20 character with 100% crit chance etc. Don't ask me what they are though, but these ought to be obvious from the stats of well geared characters, and are easily tested for.
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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Arwat » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:45 am

Hej!

Download this file for all the chars screen capture of the stats

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1o7zz8pvx6s7 ... -Stats.rar

I checked and all stats from the character window and the plugin are the same so it must get the data from the game.

About the naked version, the only difference is: I strip the character and them query the plugin for the stats. (I use this plugin to try out different items and how they affect each char)
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Arc
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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Arc » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:08 pm

Downloaded it, thanks Arwa. :)
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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Aedfrith
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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Aedfrith » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:43 pm

I've got some 85s, a 90 and some 95s that I can probably look through tonight if I have the spoons.
Will stick the results on Excel perhaps.
Aedfrith - Yarrr! | Aldnoth - Respect mah authoritah!| Hrolfdan - Buurrp! | Rumbold - BAPPLE! | Morriarty - Yak-a-boo! | Hraldan - DORF! | Aldfryd - KYAI PAN TUO KYAI! | Aednoth - BOOM! | Rumbelina - :3 | Mishhar - Grroar!

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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Aedfrith » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:40 pm

Name Lvl PrimeStat Vit Fate PM% TM% OGH Crit Res CritDef IncHeal% B P E Pmit Tmit Trait/Set bonuses
Aedfrith 95 3913 2643 464 139.1 7.8 0 29.3 12.7 0 12.9 0 18.7 24.1 43.3 43.4 "+15% Rgd Dmg, +5% Rgd Crit"
Aldnoth_DPS/OFFHEAL 95 3744 3205 716 131 117.8 60.7 25.2 18.1 14.7 14.9 0 19.8 6.7 70 63.5 "+7% OGH, +10% Tac Dmg, +13% Melee Dmg, +3% Crit"
Aldnoth_TANK 95 3744 3205 716 129 115 58.1 22.2 18.1 16.7 14.9 23.6 24.8 8.7 70 63.5 "+2% OGH, +2% Tac Dmg, +5% Melee Dmg, +2% Crit Def, +2% Evade"
Hrolfdan_HEAL 95 3848 3127 679 109.5 118.8 64.3 28.6 32.1 13 4.1 5.8 1.8 0.5 41 40 "+1 Dorf Pmit, +5% Crit, +10% OGH"
Hrolfdan_DPS 95 3848 3127 679 109.5 117.8 63.7 28.4 31.9 13 4.1 5.8 1.8 0.5 41 40 "+1 Dorf Pmit, +5% Crit"
Rumbold_QK 95 3699 3129 734 121.8 5.4 4.1 29.4 22.3 0 10.4 0 17.1 28.4 49.8 49.4 "+5% crit, +5% evade"
Aednoth 90 2924 2138 597 112.9 126.4 55.8 22.8 26.8 0 13 0 4.6 3.6 40 40
Morriarty 85 2695 996 370 105.5 8.8 2.9 23.2 9.4 23.9 21.4 0 26 5.9 62.9 43.5 "+5% crit"
Aldfryd_DPS 85 1999 1152 669 91 36 25.3 19.6 13.5 29.7 11 7.6 21.3 20.4 42.4 35.2
Hraldan_DPS 85 1787 1276 313 62.2 57.7 35.4 16 15.7 34.1 8 0 16.6 7.5 61.7 51.2 "+1 Dorf Pmit"
Aedfrith - Yarrr! | Aldnoth - Respect mah authoritah!| Hrolfdan - Buurrp! | Rumbold - BAPPLE! | Morriarty - Yak-a-boo! | Hraldan - DORF! | Aldfryd - KYAI PAN TUO KYAI! | Aednoth - BOOM! | Rumbelina - :3 | Mishhar - Grroar!

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Arc
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Re: Collating data sets for attributes - NEED YOUR HELP!!

Post by Arc » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:55 pm

Thanks a lot, Aed!
Will try my best to decrypt that (the forums really need a [ table ] feature, hehe...). :D
Archturus (the 'h' is silent!!) -- Rune-keeper, 105; Tailor
Deorwen -- Warden, 88+; Jeweller (+ Cook)
Gilbrindal -- Captain, 100; Historian
Kitsunegari -- Huntress, 100; Weaponsmith
Safirlotus -- Minstrel, (65+); Scholar
Skullrend -- Guardian, (52+); Jeweller
Nareraumo -- LM, (40+); Yeoman

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