It is currently Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:02 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




 Page 2 of 3 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:56 pm
Posts: 743
Location: Yateley UK
Traditionally what tends to happen is each RL has an instance they are interested in and tends to lead the raids in that one instance. But as time moves this moves around and other people pick up the mantle.

Bal kind of claimed Driagoch in the beggining and given the HOURS if not Days of work he put into compiling data about RoI pre launch and presenting it for the kin in a single place in an easily searchable forum. I think he deserved first bite of the cherry.

Now if Bal wants to take a break from running it , then thats not an issue, Draigoch is not exactly hard raid, we have plenty of people that can pick it up. Even with U5 coming out, myself and Hal will continue running Draigoch (though maybe not 3 times a week)

I expect Bal/Grim/Heam/Nost will be fighting over the update 5 instances :)

As to clashes , unfortunatly it will happen sometimes, there is only 7 days a week and not every one can play all of those. If there is a clash then really it is upto the Kin to decide which they want to do. Though we are big enough now to do 2 x 12man events, after all we did do 24 man draigoch!



_________________
Image

Dumnomii - Chimp 100, Kiraail - Hunter 7x, Skidald - Grd 5x, Angmia - LM 4x
Skaven - RK 2x, Merrywin - Mini 8x, Kenne - Ward 3x, Xavin - Cpt 4x. Zaphyri - Burg 1x
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:27 pm 
RIVEN!!!
RIVEN!!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:05 pm
Posts: 1340
^
^
well I feel over-looked lol :P


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:30 pm 
Lieutenant
Lieutenant

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:08 pm
Posts: 532
Hal wrote:
^
^
well I feel over-looked lol :P


Nobody is over-looked :)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=852


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:51 pm 
The Almighty
The Almighty
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 pm
Posts: 4814
Reading through others posts after responding to Cronin's comments:

Hardric wrote:
You are right, there have been some conflicts of late, both with RL and raid plans. The underlying problem, of course, is that the kin is larger and running more raids than ever before and we haven't really adapted fully to that just yet. I would expect things to settle down shortly - probably with more ad-hoc Update 5 runs taking place, rather than organized raids.


I'd agree with this statement. The loose Skimish schedule was designed as a co-ordinated timetable so kinnies could follow the same pattern of skirms at the same time instead of all doing pick-and-mix and the 12-man group can't run any skirm because theres at least one person locked on any given skirmish. It was also a temporary measure until update 5, after which we can establish a more rigid raiding schedule.

Gorvadhros wrote:
However, I am not sure if there is a rule says that Brya is the only one who can declare a new Draigoch dates but since Omnom posted it last time I do not think that there is such a restriction. At least not anymore.


There's no fixed rule that I run it - although since it's kind of become tradition, it's kind of unofficially agreed that it gets left to me. Anyone's welcome to take the job over after update 5, as I will be leading the Orthanc stuff with my insider knowledge, and i don't want to burn myself out on raid leading. Plus i feel guilty at having to lead 3 Draigochs a week, thus getting 2 or 3 times the loot list progression of any other kin member.

Dumnomii wrote:
Firstly though never forget , leading raids is a pain in the arse and takes more time than most members realise. And unfortunatly most of our raid leaders do have RL that has a nasty habbit of getting in the way.

But if an event is looking short on numbers, any one can spam kin chat and try and drum up more support / members for it and direct people to the forums, we unfortuantly do have a lot of members who do not read MOTD and dont visit forums reguarly.


  • Pre-planning (getting the thread up on the forums)
  • raising awareness (forums, MotD, kin mail in some circumstances, etc.)
  • Monitoring signups on the forums on a regular basis
  • Driving to find those last few extra Minstrels/captains before the raid date/time
  • Updating forum threads with signups (which come in so fast on draigoch when you try to post your update, someone else has signed up!)
  • The list goes on...

But there's certainly nothing stopping people going in kinchat "Hey i'm in the BG run tomorrow but we still need a minstrel, any of you guys fancy coming?"

And yeah, while MotD is handy (but rather short), people don't always read it (or even know of its existence). Plus depending on the size of your chat box and the amount of stuff going on when you log in - it may have scrolled out of sight. And not everyone checks it on the kinship panel.

Forums i think we've pretty much solved the problem now. I can't think of a single raiding kinny who HASN'T signed up for the forums, and i've seen a lot of the newer/fringe members signing up too lately.

Dumnomii wrote:
As some one who for a long while though who has been one of the more active raid leaders, and speaking with Hal about it, even if we dont have Loot list access, Motd access, could we at LEAST be considered to have admin rights on TS for setting priority speaker as needed. Our PS rights tend to come and go very randomly. And hal promises he will take it off himself when not raid leading so everyone else can get the odd word in.


Coming and going is usually down to me tweaking who has priority speaker on each Draigoch night (for example, the tank needs it, but usually isn't a raid leader so doesn't need it on the night). Those who are known to raid lead on a regular basis just have it permentantly. I've spent some time working out how to automate it so you can bump yourself as required, but frankly Teamspeak's permissions system is bastardly complicated. So at present, only a channel/server admin (read: Bal, a few others) can modify your permissions.

Also note that Priority Speaker is set (permanently until changed) on a CHANNEL rather than a SERVER basis. If you have PS in the pony, then switch to Raid, you may not have it in that channel.

-----

Another point about Draigoch - I intentionally never made a point about posting the next week's signup thread at a particular time - the general rule being "within the next 24 hrs" of the last raid of the week. On the grounds that if i did post at a predictable time - and given how fast signups STILL manage to fly in for thursday - It would mean that some people would camp the forums for the thread to go live and bag the first slots, meaning that others with less time to check the forums could potentially be blocked out from the content (which was a concern raised by kinnies).



_________________
Image
GW2: Taikken ~ Vasuuki ~ Artuura
EVE: Marcus Rushe
SW:TOR: Tannik ~ Celandra ~ Korrun
League | Steam | Minecraft: LeoxStryker
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:06 pm 
Disturber of the Peace
Disturber of the Peace
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:53 pm
Posts: 1363
Location: UK
This may Piss some people off but hey thats just me.

The raid leaders/Officer Team Dont personally know each other outside this game, we are also not mind readers therefore we can only communicate when we are each on lotro with one another. If you find this a failure to communicate then so be it.

Organising a raid for when people have a real life. I will just point out that the main guys who will organise raids such as OD/BG/DN/Dragoch do have Jobs, these jobs do come first, im sorry to say this but my playing lotro doesnt pay for petrol for my car. If i have to work late then thats what i do, if another officer/raid leader has to work late then thats what they do if this means a raid needs rescheduling or cancelling then so be it. If its so easy to lead a raid and get people together then i say go right ahead.

However if you think about it the raid and officer teams brings alot more than most other raid kins and casual kins do, A) your not forced to raid or group, you do this if you want to. B) we do try to get everyone involved if they want to.

If people want to complain that we have real lives to deal with then fair enough, if they want to complain that the only ways we have of communicating again fair enough but i say this....If you think you can do better, Go ahead.


No i know this will piss a lot of people off but its slice of truth and unfortunatly you caught me on a seldom day off from work and seeing as im a general grumpy person these are my answers.



_________________
EvE - Nostborn Amatin / Steam - Nostborn / Raptr - Nostborn

https://zkillboard.com/character/93160905/
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:53 pm 
RIVEN!!!
RIVEN!!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:05 pm
Posts: 1340
Amen to that my Cappy bro


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:06 pm 
Questionable Morals
Questionable Morals
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:23 am
Posts: 449
Location: Poortugaal, Netherlands
I have agree with the above. We're quite a huge kinship atm, with a large amount of officers. As we're not an official organisation or anything there will be flaws and miscommunications all the time. Especially with a game which constantly keeps releasing new content that we want to run also, then we got a selection of people who must play the new content and a group that still want to see us run the old content while there is only a select group of people who are prepared to lead this. We all just have to have a bit of patience for both members who want to run as much as possible and the officers/leaders who want to organise these runs. We all play this game for our fun i guess (we started as a casual kin just for fun and grew out to a, imo, casual kin with raiding capabilities with a main aim of having fun) and we're doing our best to keep it as much fun as we can. If it a couple times doesn't go that smooth we just got to accept it and move on.

Also i want to right away excuse myself for my AWOL lately, it havent helped either i guess (not that im a real raiding/leading officer but still..). As i told already once in kinchat that i got a bit of rl troubles atm. Im unemployed, no study (which would be perfect normally to play alot) and if i dont find a job within 3 weeks i'll prolly loose my roof above my head, so im kinda busy with looking for a job atm and trying to get a physics degree so i can continue a study next year. I'll be back though ofc for U5 but i dunno how much i'll be on.



_________________
At your service, and your family's!
Image

Image
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:22 pm 
Master-At-Arms
Master-At-Arms

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 312
(edit: Good luck Maddy!!)

This is a quite interesting post to be honest - as it flags the mix of the perspectives in play.

Instead of restating a lot of what has already been said, I'd rather try a different twist in all this (though still in line with Maddy's post). The problem is as sweet as it is annoying. Or put in other words; Small kin, small issues. Larger kin, larger issues. We are now, compared to one year ago, a fairly large kin (sweet!) - and we are starting to build up all those challenges (annoying!) that comes when compiling a higher number of players (This is ofc a good challenge :) )

Add to this the fact that we come from very different countries, with very different backgrounds and that we vary quite a lot in age. On such basis, I think we can agree that the basic approach to the gaming is bound to be nuanced.

What is my point you ask? Well, simply put we need to adapt and overcome. And when I say adapt I mean in a reactive way as we do not have any RL contact. This makes proactivity on upcoming problems next to impossible. Basically, we (the officers and raidleaders) need to count on all kinnies to voice any rising issues - and then adapt to the extend possible. At the same time, everybody really do need to understand the challenges of those leading. It is indeed time consuming and it cannot hold first priority every hour of the day - that fact needs to be accepted. On the other hand I have seen quite a few examples of constructive criticism being accepted and transferred into changes by the OFF group - and we will of course continue to do so. The keyword being constructive by the way. If you have a complaint, then remember to think through any suggestions that will improve the state of things - otherwise there is a good chance it will be construed as nothing else but bitching and moaning. And then the chance of correcting things narrows down. So help us by being honest in a good way.

Bottomline; if further growth is to be aligned with the current integrity of the kin we need to adhere to a few basic values - mutual understanding and respect to name a few.

Makes sense?



_________________
"Certainty of death, small chance of success... What are we waiting for?"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:27 pm 
The Elhirphant
The Elhirphant
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:15 pm
Posts: 587
Wiploc wrote:
Bottomline; if further growth is to be aligned with the current integrity of the kin we need to adhere to a few basic values - mutual understanding and respect to name a few.


Can I use this in my next team meeting please? :)



_________________
In the world before Monkey, primal chaos reigned.

http://my.lotro.com/home/character/2550 ... 377944157/

Mains (75): Elhiredriel/Elharwen/Felgard/Hardric
Levelling: Elhirphant/Ashrisa/Elhiras
Alts: Feldin/Hardalin
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:10 pm 
Questionable Morals
Questionable Morals
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:23 am
Posts: 449
Location: Poortugaal, Netherlands
(Thanks alot Wip :D)

It makes alot of sense to me, its also wait my bottomline was. It's not really easy to be an officer in such a huge kin to keep everyone equally happy, everyone has a different idea of whats fun in the game and the beauty of MMO's is also the freedom you got in what to do. We're a really diverse kin with people literally from all over the world, playing different times etc like Wip said and too focus everything on 1 group of people doesn't work in this kin. If we plan events in the weekends, people who got busy schedules then cant join us, plan em weekdays its vice versa, same with daytime/nighttime and then we haven't even covered every single thing that we can organise ranging from the many raids and instances to non-game events as hide-and-seek and quiz nights. Organizing stuff is really hard and whatever decision you make will never be accepted by 100% of the members, its just impossible to take everyones views etc in account and if organizing an event fails i think its just plain unfair to blame the officer/leader for it. It's an MMO we're playing, a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game, we play it together and if something fails, we fail as a group not as individuals. As far as raids and events goes this is just like teamsports, except for rare occassions never 1 person can be blamed. So please respect the job officers do for the kin, quite alot of time goes into organizing everything on this scale, and like Wip said, how fun it is to have a large kin its also just as frustrating to organize events, we play it to have fun with eachother so moaning about the faults doesnt help much without new plans or improvements. Ofc im not saying you should have complaints at all but keep it constructive and postivive, the last thing people should have to do is worrying and being annoyed because of a game.



_________________
At your service, and your family's!
Image

Image
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 2 of 3 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron