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 Post subject: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:03 pm 
Sergeant of the Guard
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Theres not many activity in this subforum, so I really hope anyone sees this :?

Anyways,
I have a complaint.
First, lets look at the raids that were organized lately.
Rift, friday 2 dec: cancelled at the very last minute, already at the door of the rift. Raid leader should have seen here signups were low, so an effort could have been made in time to recruit additional people from allied kins/friends, or if that would have failed, cancellation should have been made earlier.
BG, wednesday 7 dec: moved to friday all of a sudden. After that, Hal mentioned he was already planning to do skirm raids on friday. Final message there is that "it will be rescheduled" with no further note when. Kin MotD yesterday still said BG friday, but I talked to the raid leader yesterday and even he had absolutely no idea if it would go through or not. How are us regular kinnies supposed to know then? Im under the impression there is virtually no communication between officers and raid leaders here. Its like the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing :?
Last weeks Draigoch: The signup post was posted wednesday. For a raid that is supposed to happen thursday, wednesday is really way way too late for a signup post.
This weeks Draigoch: Again, signup didn't appear until wednesday. And if Dumnomii hadn't posted it, it prolly wouldn't have appeared at all.

Starting to see a pattern here? My point is, raid organization has been extremely sloppy of late. We kinnies make an effort to sign up, to be on time, to have all the consumables we need etc etc etc. Surely we deserve better than this sloppiness.
Now I understand officers and raid leaders are only human, and there are times when you just do not have the time. (when you are busy playing minecraft for example :P ) However, leading a kinship isn't a one man job. If you do not have the time to post raids when kinnies expect you to do so, find someone else to do it for you. Thats what you have officers for.



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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:46 pm 
The Elhirphant
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You are right, there have been some conflicts of late, both with RL and raid plans. The underlying problem, of course, is that the kin is larger and running more raids than ever before and we haven't really adapted fully to that just yet. I would expect things to settle down shortly - probably with more ad-hoc Update 5 runs taking place, rather than organized raids.

On the whole raids should be assumed cancelled if there are not enough sign-ups, unless kinnies feel strongly about the run and express a concern. I would agree that probably more warning and information should be giving out beforehand if a cancellation or rescheduling is to take place, but you'll have to give us some leeway as this is not always possible. Better communication is needed from (us) leaders of late. At the same time please do check the forum regularly for updates.

More than that, I do think that Nomnom should be commended for taking the initiative to post a signup list, even if it was last minute - cheers Nom



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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:54 pm 
RIVEN!!!
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Cronin wrote:
Rift, friday 2 dec: cancelled at the very last minute, already at the door of the rift. Raid leader should have seen here signups were low, so an effort could have been made in time to recruit additional people from allied kins/friends, or if that would have failed, cancellation should have been made earlier.


Do not try to blame this as a failure on my part. The rift sign up thread had enough people interested, they just didn't bother to show up online at the specified time, which is hardly my fault. An hour before I was due to start invites, I expressed concerns and doubts about it going ahead due to a lack of signed up people being online. I also tried to recruit more people from the kin so that the run could still go ahead, no one was interested (dispite the fact I was requested by members of the kin to run the instance). I didn't cancel the run earlier cause I still had hope the signed up people would log on closer to the time (as is often the case on raids such as draigoch, etc). So i did everything that i could in order to ensure the run went ahead short of pugging people out of global (which i was not prepared to do)


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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:56 pm 
Disturber of the Peace
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Leaving post for a time when im less grumpy



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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:59 pm 
Master Guardsman
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Actually, there should not be a problem with posting the raid on Wednesday while the first run on Thursday.
It is obvious that this is the way Brya doing it so you can try to schedule yourself to be online on Wednesday to sign up before others. That is what I am trying to do.
On the other hand Brya was leading the raid as much as he can but after that many run, we have Hal, Grim and Flair (he is wielding lightsaber nowadays tho if I am not wrong) to lead us and I am sure we can bring few more canditate front to lead Draigoch now. So Brya can play Minecraft as much as he can. He misses the spot though but it is his own problem, right? :P No shineys for you this week Brya :P
However, I am not sure if there is a rule says that Brya is the only one who can declare a new Draigoch dates but since Omnom posted it last time I do not think that there is such a restriction. At least not anymore. So this probably will not be a problem for many.
I do not think that there is lack of communication between officers and the raid leaders, Hal is almost always online on Teamspeak and never lets this lackness happen :)))
for RIFT and BG...well, I do not care if they re-schedule it and if I can't get place on the run... If there is a run, if I am there and needed I go. On the other hand, if we are talking about the same try, Hal tried a lot to gather people in kinchat but he gave up eventually.
Final words are that I am here around about nine months now and what I understand is anyone is free to open a topic to plan a raid so if you want to run RIFT or BG why do not you just try to gather people for these? But be careful, Riel leeroys lot in RIFT :)

Have fun.



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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:56 pm
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Location: Yateley UK
Things do take a while change and adapt,

Firstly though never forget , leading raids is a pain in the arse and takes more time than most members realise. And unfortunatly most of our raid leaders do have RL that has a nasty habbit of getting in the way.

But if an event is looking short on numbers, any one can spam kin chat and try and drum up more support / members for it and direct people to the forums, we unfortuantly do have a lot of members who do not read MOTD and dont visit forums reguarly.

Also there is nothing to stop people posting there own event/raid in the events forum and running something they want to do themselves. If you want to do something do not just wait for it to appear, be it Rift or CD/Urugarth or even GA on level for fun and practise.

Agreed 24 hours on a sign up is not enough, why i also spammed kin chat and hassled poor hardric till he updated MOTD.

As some one who for a long while though who has been one of the more active raid leaders, and speaking with Hal about it, even if we dont have Loot list access, Motd access, could we at LEAST be considered to have admin rights on TS for setting priority speaker as needed. Our PS rights tend to come and go very randomly. And hal promises he will take it off himself when not raid leading so everyone else can get the odd word in.

Little things but all raid leaders know what a a pain in the arse it is leading this stuff, and it can kind of wear you down.



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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:15 pm 
The Elhirphant
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Gorvadhros wrote:
I do not think that there is lack of communication between officers and the raid leaders
Have fun.


The only issue was that BG got rescheduled to Friday (today), the same day that Hal was organizing a Skirm raid. Not necessarily a conflict but it understandably gave the impression of a lack of communication. So I think Cronin was right to raise the issue. I hadn't realized the RIFT cancellation was due to a no-shows. Nuff said.

Personally, I would have liked to see the Draigoch sign ups appear a little earlier. That said, even if they went up earlier, the popular slots would still fill up instantly. After 12th December there will probably be less interest in Draigoch.....



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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:16 pm 
Second Marshall
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About the Rift raid: only me, Riel and Hal where on at that time and other 75's said they will join and didn't come.
I totally agree about people making their own posts and if someone wants to join and help them it's all good.
It's not a shame to pug skirm raids or instances as you might not find in the kin players interested in what you want and need.
Communication is pretty good here if you ask me and the leaders really know what they are doing when they are not leroying (tbh I think Nost and Haem know at those times also)



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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:22 pm 
RIVEN!!!
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Both myself and omnom were waiting on brya to put up the Draigoch lists for this week (since its what he normally does), when we realised that is was getting later and later and there was still no sign up lists, we took it upon ourselves to put up a sign up list to ensure that the kin still got its Draigoch runs. We know it was later than usual, but at least the list was still up and we still managed to get the people to fill the Thursday raid which was the most pressing issue, Sunday and Tuesday can take their time to fill, they're not as pressing, but at least the kin still got organised Draigoch runs scheduled for this week


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 Post subject: Re: Complaint about the current state of raid organization
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:24 pm 
The Almighty
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Cronin wrote:
Rift, friday 2 dec: cancelled at the very last minute, already at the door of the rift. Raid leader should have seen here signups were low, so an effort could have been made in time to recruit additional people from allied kins/friends, or if that would have failed, cancellation should have been made earlier.


I'd hazard a guess that the raid leader tried this, and hoped to recruit some members from the kin around start time who maybe hadn't have signed up but had a free evening.


Cronin wrote:
BG, wednesday 7 dec: moved to friday all of a sudden. After that, Hal mentioned he was already planning to do skirm raids on friday. Final message there is that "it will be rescheduled" with no further note when. Kin MotD yesterday still said BG friday, but I talked to the raid leader yesterday and even he had absolutely no idea if it would go through or not. How are us regular kinnies supposed to know then? Im under the impression there is virtually no communication between officers and raid leaders here. Its like the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing :?


Events are scheduled by their respective leaders (be it an officer or someone else). So with everyone's hectic schedules and differing playtimes, the only reliable way other officers/leaders know if there is someone going on is if its on the events forum. Some of us work ocasional nights, while others go AWOL with a minecraft addiction.. :mrgreen:

Cronin wrote:
Last weeks Draigoch: The signup post was posted wednesday. For a raid that is supposed to happen thursday, wednesday is really way way too late for a signup post.
This weeks Draigoch: Again, signup didn't appear until wednesday. And if Dumnomii hadn't posted it, it prolly wouldn't have appeared at all.


I'll take responsibility for these two. Since we started regular tuesday runs, the thread hasn't gone up until AFTER the tuesday run. And if it doesn't go up late night Tuesday, well then its Wednesday morning. And this week, i wasn't leading the Tuesday run since i wasn't around to run it or follow up with the next weeks thread. At which point when i returned i got addicted to Minecrack. But thankfully OmNom took the initiative and put the thread up.

That said, Draigoch's thursday run does fill EXTREMLY fast. As in, all 12 slots can be gone in an hour. You do however have plenty of advance on the other dates. And unlike all other organised raids, there are other dates.

-----

So to summarise, yes, valid points all. We try to get all runs advertised with 3 or more days warning (Draigoch being the exception given that its run practically every other day).

Low signups can't be helped, but we prefer to hang on to the hope that we can get some last minute replacements (which is usually extremly likely with our pool of players) rather than outright cancel it in advance at the first sign that there MIGHT be trouble.

I'd also like to point out that while Officers do have a bit of responsibility to help out with the kin management, organising events etc, it doesn't mean that regular kinnies can't put in a shift to organise an event or something similar. OmNom in particular puts in a mighty shift for a non-officer. The more everyone chips in, the better the kin becomes. And such work doesn't go unnoticed - It counts in your favour if we are ever looking to recruit more officers. ;)



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