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 Post subject: What kin want from us and what u think we could do better.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:23 am 
Danger Mouse
Danger Mouse

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:29 am
Posts: 1484
Location: Neamt, Romania
Good morning my fellows. Rohan is close, and i think that in short time a lot of ppl will return to Lotro (as long with most of our officers) and we will start leveling, grinding again, doing new instances/raids. Also recently was a small number of players who leaved Roe from various motives (other raiding kins, the reason that we are not leading enought raids, perceived - insultive words/behaviour and people thinking that we aren't as friendly/helpful as we used to be.)
Those being said, i would like to hear your opinion about our kin and about any problems/wishes/things u will like to see more, about officers, about kin chat, behaviour in instances/raids, behaviour outside of kin, unfriendly/friendly ppl etc. If u have to say something in private also, please send me a message.
I will not bother you more. Your feedback is important because we can take some conclusions about what is working good / bad and where to put more effort.

For closing my opinions, i would like to point some stuff i encountered:
- ppl prefer to pug instead doing in kin. Please dont start with the impresion that if is not an experimented healer online, we should not do an instance, there is allways T1 if u are afraid to try and a few wipes will allways learn you something.
- i would love to see more ppl reading forums. As long as only a hand of ppl are reading forums, that mean low presence on kin stuff and the same burden on the same ppl allways.



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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:02 am 
Sergeant of the Guard
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:16 am
Posts: 167
I find this kin very helpful and fun, so no complains/ wishes in that regard, but i would like to see more of the older content being done ( maybe an older raid once in a month or so, don't want to overburden the officers/people who know the tactics to much :D ). About the kinchat language, i find it mature ( with a nice dose of sarcasm once in a while :) ).


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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:50 am 
Lieutenant
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Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:08 pm
Posts: 532
The nature of MMO's has always been the same as far as peeps coming and going. It is just natural attrition, folks thinking the grass is greener on the other side etc. In the time immediately preceeding an expansion it is usual for some folks to try and find more excitement and action elsewhere. They perceive that things have become somewhat stale. But it is usually a misconception: It is only that no new substantial content has been introduced recently and the kin has more or less exhausted what is there right now. Peeps do become bored and this can then lead on to a slippery slope of bickering and biting etc.

Now within any group of people there are bound to be personality clashes. But this need not be an issue. Just some understanding, maturity and patience is all that is required.

We are all old and daft enough to not let things get out of perspective. Or at least I hope so.....;) hehe

Folks just need to have patience, find something to keep them occupied and smiling :)

There is nothing to say, if you want to do something in particular in game, that you cannot organise it yourself to get it done. We don't always have to place the burden on our team of officers. This then puts a strain upon them and the game can rapidly become more of a chore rather than something enjoyable.

I am sure all will agree we wish to spend our free time doing something we enjoy and not feeling obliged to organise this, sort out that etc etc. all the time.

I am more than happy with being a member of the Rangers of Eriador. We have a sound base of players, alot of lovely folks to spend time chatting and playing with. We are also very lucky to have a great leadership team from top to bottom. Ofc. it is impossible to please everyone all of the time: But I have to say after many years of playing various games with different guilds/kins, this is by far the best one I have been a part of. We do instances together, raid, chat, have social events and have fun. If there are disputes, which are very rare, they are sorted out quickly and for the most part amicably.

I am sure that the majority of folks that do leave kins/guilds that they have previously been very happy in, live to regret their decision in the not too distant future.

To summarise:

Chillax, enjoy, make merry and look forward to what the new expansion will bring :)


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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:47 am 
Master Guardsman
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 266
+1 for Baz

i couldnt say it any better, i love it here


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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:45 am 
Second Marshall
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:28 am
Posts: 847
Location: Bucharest
Yeah, Baz said it all and I have to agree with him.
People come and go for various reasons and it's impossible to please everyone both in game and in real life as well..
I really enjoy this kin, made a lot of friends and like playing with you guys.



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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:57 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Italy
Well, my experience with the Rangers is great; as you all know I'm not often online, but whenever I log I have the opportunity to have fun, progress in the game, and participate to raids according to the availability of a spot. I feel supported and I try to support other kinnies as much as I can, so I'm really happy. And besides, you are all great guys (and girls, ofc!), so what should I desire more? :-)
Panth



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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:28 pm 
The Almighty
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 pm
Posts: 4827
Right, well to add my views, most of which are known to officers due to a similar discussion in officer chat recently:

The Organising of Raiding/Instances

We (Officers) try to organise what we can to ensure a minimum level of content on the calendar. While we do appreciate that kinnies may look to us as having the responsibility to do this, it's not fair on officers and those few regular kinnies who organise content to be the same people who ALWAYS organise content. After all, everyone who plays this game has a real life.

From a personal perspective, I would love for more people to step up to the plate and organise/lead content. Very few people have done this over the kin's lifetime, and one could argue that this is holding the kin back a little in its potential. IMHO, it's also a little bit cheeky for someone to complain/leave due to a lack of organised content if they won't even consider helping out themselves.

Yes, not everyone is familiar with the tactics for every instance/raid. And leading a raid takes more effort and knowledge than leading a 6-man for example. But that's what we're here for as a kin. We have a lot of people with a lot of experience, and we're here to share it. Personally, I'd love to be able to help and develop newer players so that one day they feel they have the experience and confidence to lead runs themselves, meaning more organised content for the kin, and we grow stronger as a kinship.

It's also why I'm hoping to get Instance/Raid guides done for EVERY instance during RoR's lifetime. Including guides published as fast as possible for the cluster due later in the year. Hopefully, a few people can help me out with writing those as they will be MASSIVE undertakings given the level of detail i like to include. If you want a specific guide, by all means ask for it.

In the meantime, theres a whole bunch of forums dedicated to help and advice, including tips for EVERY instance.

On Piira's point of organising older content for fun:
Again, it comes down to the same two points - Someone willing to lead it, and enough people to be interested in actually doing it. Since at the moment almost everyone is 75, running something like The Rift would be done purely for fun ratehr than serious character advancement. As such, it will see less interest than Draigoch/Orthanc for example (though ofc with enough over-leveled people, you don't need a full group). Older content is also a great way to include new members of the kinship while they are leveling, and get them introduced to the mechanics of grouping/raiding. Plus can you imagine how epic it would be to get some old raid gear at appropriate levels and actually use them for stats as well as cosmetics? :mrgreen:

On the subject of people thinking that we might not be as friendly and/or helpful as we used to be

Sorry, but this simply isn't true.

If a kinny has questions or needs advice, it will ALWAYS be provided in kinchat/forums, as long as there is someone with enough experience to answer the question.

If a kinny needs something crafted, someone will usually craft it. Remember that other players are here to have fun and play the game too, so they may not be able to stop and craft - or relog an alt to do it - at the exact moment you ask.

If a kinny wants to run a specific instance without warning in kinchat, again people will probably join, but they are still busy doing whatever they want to do in game too. If they don't have advance warning, they probably aren't going to join your run. This is why we encourage people to organise content on the forums but very few regualr kinnies do.

The kinship is intended to have a fun friendly atmosphere. We're not robots, and we like to have a laugh. IMHO: If you can't take a joke or another persons opinion (regardless of whether you stress you can respect others opionions) - Then you do not belong on the internet. It's that simple. ;)

Sometimes someone will say something in chat meaning one thing (a joke or sarcasm perhaps), and it gets read as something else. No harm was intended, but someone feels offended. Officers won't intervene because either the original comment is clearly (to us) not intended to cause harm, or because it's within acceptable limits (a joke for example). My personal advice: If you ever feel offended by something someone has said, politely and privately (/tell) point this out to them, and 99.99% of the time you'll find they didn't mean to offend you, and they will apologise on the spot.. If the matter is however ongoing, you can and should report it to an officer so they can look into the matter further. We can't do anything if we don't know anything, so you can't blame us if you don't tell us.

Lastly theres the issue that some people get offended by not receiving responses in kinchat. It could be they have simply said "hello" or they are asking for people to craft them something or come to an instance. It is common for for people to not respond if their answer will be negative ("No", "Sorry") in an MMO. No offense is intended, so you just have to deal with it.. Half the time the reason people don't respond is because they are in combat or an instance, or they simply don't have it in chat. As an extreme example, we had the case of Alastrovic. He regularly took anything said by a kinny - no matter how innocent - to be a personal insult to himself. As a result, a lot of people felt it best to say nothing so they didn't cause a diplomatic incident. Alastrovic then decided that kinnies were being rude by NOT talking to him as much and left the kin. Sometimes you just can't win.

On kinnies keeping quiet when they have issues with something in the kin

We pride ourselves in listening to everything our members have to say, from myself as Leader down to the newest recruit. We regularly post topics on the forums to ask everyone for their feedback to matters which affect the whole kin. We also invite anyone to raise any issues they have with how things are done in the kin. Bottom line: If you don't tell us your issues, we can't look into them and try to address them.

On not being able to please everyone, etc.

Yes, we do try to please as many people as possible, which as a result puts a lot of extra strain on the officers, organisers of content etc, as we have to provide for both experienced and ambitious raiders, and more casual mostly soloer players.

This means that although we do try to the leading edge of raiding (currently Orthanc T2), we will never approach it with such focus or dedication, or have regular success with it like a "Hardcore Raiding Kinship" will. If people have ambitions beyond what the kinship can offer, then fair enough and I wish them all the best.

On all other non-raiding matters, I challenge anyone to come up with something that is beyond what the kin can/does offer.

-----

Panthelion wrote:
And besides, you are all great guys (and girls, ofc!), so what should I desire more? :-)

THE RING! :twisted:

-----

One point i did raise in officer chat was the possibility of writing a Kin Charter

This would be a document about what peopel can expect from the kinship (a certain level of raids, friendly helpfulness, blah blah), as well as what the kinship would like to see from individuals (giving back as much as you take, helping your fellow kinnies, hopefully organising content one day). It would also set out the realistic boundaries of the kinship, such as never being at the leading edge of raiding. Probably also outline expected behaviour (ie no excessive swearing, racism etc) from members. Also include information on what do do in the event of Kinny Vs Kinny issues (as outlined earlier in the post), kin procedure in various circumstances, explain that people are welcome to discuss issues on the forum etc. And also outline what services we offer (Free class quest items, dyes etc from the kinhouse, Free prizes for people to give out if they want to organise social events). And anything else anything can think of that is relevant really.

Discuss.



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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:52 pm 
Disturber of the Peace
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Location: UK
I would Like a Shrine, Dedicated to Me in the Kin house, Nothing too obscene, something elegant yet tasteful maybe....No?

Personally from my point of view this is a good kin, the only issue i see is the perception of the officer and kinsman role, It is still seen (by both Member and Officer) that the officer must organise raids, sort suicide list, advise and help etc. This just needs to change tbh, Anyone can organise a raid however while the stigma is there most people will leave it to the kin officers (or the (very?)odd couple that will organise runs). All that needs to be done is to get rid of this stigma, it will take time and im sure some discussions about it but it will happen. Yes currently only officers can only use the suicide list etc however one an only ask.

Things will change and the people will always be different however i think we just need to shed new light on the attitude of the kin (Semi Casual and Raiders) and encourage newer members to take the reins for some runs, get others who would like to lead raids to seek out those that currently lead and ask for assistance/helpful ear during raids. The best thing to do is learn from the past to avoid the mistakes in the future (I certainly have) and the same applies to the kin, look at the areas you didn't like too much and change as needed.



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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:46 am
Posts: 1391
Location: Malmo, Skane (the country)
Lotro = off work = fun time
A nice kin helps. My kin join date = 18 / 12 / 2010 and I wouldn't have stayed this long if I didn't have fun.

A look at board index
Random chat - Topics = 475 - Posts = 5333
Events - Topics = 227 - Posts = 6163

From my perspective I would say the kin do well. Random chat is, in all forums I've been to, the one most active.
So be merry, have a drink on me. And if anyone, leaders or members, feel the need for a change go for it.
Yes, it has been a down period for some time now. But hey, RoR was introduced and summer happened. Once the grey boring autumn gets in full gear I'm sure people will start taking more interest.



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 Post subject: Re: What kin want from us and what u think we could do bette
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:29 pm 
Danger Mouse
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Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:29 am
Posts: 1484
Location: Neamt, Romania
Obion wrote:
My kin join date = 18 / 12 / 2010 and I wouldn't have stayed this long if I didn't have fun.

I remember when i was helping the little Obion in Forochel around lvl 45 ... long time since than

nostborn wrote:
I would Like a Shrine, Dedicated to Me in the Kin house, Nothing too obscene, something elegant yet tasteful maybe....No?


this was the best part, i really enjoyed :) I even got some great ideas, shame that we cannot create from blank any decoration.

Overall i see no complains but the list is still open. I must add +1 to boss, Nost and some others who said about running content as lider. Regarding suicide list acces, i dont know what to say, because even that i trust all the ppl i know in the kin, will allways be new recruits or new ppl joining and having the SK on their disposall will make things less sure and the ppl will have doubts about the correctness of the suicide list. That could be resolved somehow asigning ANY officer that in the day than any content is scheduled, to be online and solve the SK.
Still waiting some new thoughts, still some old ppl in kin who's opinion is expected, as well as the new ones.



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